A Burden For The Times
A Burden For The Times
Tech Giants Face Off: Apple and Android Part 2
Ever wondered if Apple's high price tags are really worth it? Join us for a lively debate as Anton, a die-hard Android fan, and Aaron, our resident Apple enthusiast, lock horns over the ultimate tech rivalry.
Next, we tackle the ethics and practicality of Apple's pricing strategy. Is it fair to charge premium prices for devices that may not offer superior value? We weigh the benefits of Apple's extended support and security updates against Android's more fragmented support. Anton emphasizes the moral implications of Apple's high costs, while Aaron highlights the long-term functionality and security of investing in Apple products. This balanced discussion provides listeners with a nuanced perspective on whether those high-cost Apple devices are truly worth the investment.
Finally, we pit Android and iPhone against each other in terms of customization, features, and apps. From the freedom of Android's customization to the high-quality experience of Apple's App Store, we cover it all. The debate heats up as Anton praises Android's dynamic user interface, while Aaron shares the exciting and consistent experience of iOS. We wrap up with a comparison of ecosystems, scoring each platform's strengths and weaknesses. Whether you're Team Apple or Team Android, this episode promises a comprehensive, entertaining, and thought-provoking conversation you won't want to miss!
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Hey and welcome to another episode of the podcast. If you were already listening, in chronological order, then you know that we were talking about Apple versus Android last time and so we want to continue that chat. It's a little bit different than what we kind of do on the podcast and I'm sure our philosophical things are going to come throughout the summer as we go through. But with this one we just like UNC and Duke and Lakers versus Celtics and all the other rivalries that you see today. We just like UNC and Duke and Lakers versus Celtics and all the other rivalries that you see today.
Speaker 1:We want to give this a little bit of airtime and, believe it or not, this is one of those things that, personally, we just enjoy. This wasn't something that's really taken a whole lot of study for me personally, aaron Anton's person, because I mean we enjoy tech, we enjoy trying out consumer electronics and stuff. I mean obviously we're no MKBHD, but we definitely enjoy looking at all these different things and learning all the things that tech has brought and all the cultural implication it has upon our society. So we discussed the last time Anton broke down this matter of that Apple fans and Trump fans and drawing that comparison. Anton, any reminders for us upon that front?
Speaker 2:Let's just specify what I mean again.
Speaker 1:Yes, we do need that.
Speaker 2:What I'm saying is that Trump fans often overlook some shortcomings. At times. Apple fans overlook the shortcomings of Apple at times. They also seem to believe they are in this group of elite ninja mind warriors who understand tech in a way that no one else does. And I'm just saying that drawing the collective mentality or hive mind of Apple people does remind me of some Trump supporters who also seem to share a hive mind of thoughts and just repeat things that other people have told them without actually trying to find any other alternative. Electronic devices.
Speaker 1:I think your explanation offended me more than just you saying what you said earlier. Aaron Anton also said something which was a quote of the day last time about it's a jitterbug for adults. I was wondering how that set with you, with you and your jitterbug that you have over there.
Speaker 3:I thought it was hilarious. I don't agree, but I thought it was.
Speaker 1:Well, anton was pointing out the ease of use category, which we're going to get to in just a moment, but before we do, I you do, anton, outside of the pricing. So obviously we've joked around Apple, android and all this other stuff, but I do want to get into this part of the conversation because we're starting to get into this aspect of price, because any Apple user is going to mention this. I'm an Apple fan, fanatic, whatever word you want to use I'm an Apple fan and because of that, I then use I mean, the pricing obviously is something that's there. So, anton, you have a desire for customization, open access and all these other things. So, outside the pricing of Apple, is that your only concern that you really have, or the thing that you have against?
Speaker 2:it. It's one of the things I said. I think customization is a bigger problem for me because I think the user interface in general is going to need to be different, based on the consumer. I think, again, it's just the Apple slab to me. Again, I'm not a fan of that. Like Aaron says, it doesn't stick to me. That doesn't stick to me at all. I have to be able to make it more useful to my workflow and what I have going on personally. But I do think and this is again the delineation price is a major component of why I don't like Apple, because that's the actual concern of most normal Americans would be price. Ok, americans are overpaying, especially, again, most Americans can't afford Apple products. They can't. They're buying them because they think they have to, because of marketing, but there is absolutely nothing that most people are going to experience that a low end pixel cannot handle better than an Apple product.
Speaker 1:OK, we're going to get back to that. That right there.
Speaker 3:But, aaron, do you have anything to say about the customization, open access portion of it? I agree with him that the customization is different. Even when I look at the widgets that I want on my home screen, I would agree that they are going to lack the customization that I've seen on a lot of Android phones. The only thing that I really want to throw in real quick about what Anton just said about the price point, I'm going to say and maybe this is a capitalist in us For me, the price point makes the difference because there is I'll use it this way Me as a photographer. The reason I don't want to be a low-end photographer is because to be the $20, $30, $50 photographer guy who does it, you're going to attract a customer that is sometimes sometimes only going to cause you problems, and so I'm saying sometimes a price in our capitalist society helps to tell you that this is number one, a premium product, but it sets you in a different system.
Speaker 1:I want you to it does hold the thought, though just for a second, because when we get to question number four about the justification point, I think this is part of the aspect that you're saying is a justification for the reasoning of why Apple does product because they have a generous margins when they are charging for products and stuff, but the desire of customization and open access. The only thing I want to add to what Anton says concerning you know the I guess the weakness my pushback would be man, you can't. It's almost like a parent saying I want good kids but I don't want to train my kids. It's like, yeah, it's fun when everything's free on Android and anybody can develop an app, but when your Google Play Store is trash you know what I'm saying it's like well, that goes with the territory.
Speaker 1:You don't like fences, you don't want a fence, but you want the result of living inside of the fence, because you're tired of people tramping through your yard and dogs running through your yard. What I'm saying is don't you understand that the lack of desire of customization, the fact that you cannot customize, is because they control it? That's why you walk into the app store and you don't find 15,000 garbage apps before you find one that is reputable. The ones that are on Apple have been vetted, so can you speak to the fact of Anton? Are you willing to give up? Want your customization so bad that you're willing to then give up the fact of forget the word safety that then comes with?
Speaker 2:that, because this is again why I call it the jitterbug for adults. And again, follow me, there's only two kind of people that actually use phones. They're the people who only need the apps that are going to be fine.
Speaker 2:Mom's going to download facebook candy crush um maybe something, yeah, maybe some kind of like yeah, you said a word game, a book. Ok, you can do that on any Google Play Store and that's going to be safe on almost any venue. Then there are the people who I would say, like myself, were more astute technologically and are also going to have not have this problem. The problem to which you're speaking is a very small problem. That's going to happen in a small window of individuals, because mom's not downloading random apps from the Play Store. Most people aren't.
Speaker 2:That's why again, I'm not even talking about us three Like Aaron needs an Apple product for what Aaron does. I completely agree with that. I'm talking about the general American audience. It's not downloading random apps from the App Store on a daily basis. They have a list of 10 to 15 apps they've been downloading since they were 16 years old and they transfer them to all their phones. This is never really going to be a problem, unless someone again was just searching the Google Play Store for a fun app. Yeah, that could be a problem. I'm saying, for most use cases, what you're describing is never actually going to be a problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then it becomes a problem when mom is looking at work and she sees somebody across the way who has a new word with friends category that her and Dardene can play, and then she goes to the Google Play Store, downloads some type of creeperware of some sort and then it then jacks up her phone. What I'm saying is it's like yeah, I hear what you're saying, but it doesn't change the propensity that it could happen way easier If mom you know, like I was for a while. I mean, I was like mom, you've got to have an Apple phone and I definitely, and even for Tapthis family, because they always ask me for help of fixing their Droid phones. Because, yes, the jitterbug aspect. I see what you're saying and I don't like it. But I hear what you're saying about the simplicity.
Speaker 1:But it's one of those things where it's kind of like the OtterBox Okay, you put it on, but try to break it. You know what I mean. It might not be what you want. It doesn't look as clean and look as happy when you have that big old Defender OtterBox. But guess what? You're going to drop that bad boy over the cliff and it's still going to be fine, and I would think the operating system is an insulated operating system, that it's going to be a hard thing to download a virus on a phone or some type of malware onto a iPhone, it's just probably it's not going to happen. So I would say that the customization is cool, but at the same time it comes with an expense. And you're saying that it's well. It's not for the most people, but I'm like, yeah, but the propensity is still there for those people that are there, which will funnel in to the conversation then about a premium price.
Speaker 3:Can I throw one thing in real quick about what you guys are saying about customization? Can I throw in the kids aspect, Like we're talking? Mom is a proverbial plumber in this episode but I'm going to say we're talking about kids in this episode, but uh, but I'm gonna say we're talking about kids. Tavian, if tavian had an android phone? I mean, again, this is being turned to a parental thing, a parental lockdown, kids phones conversation but this is a cultural argument.
Speaker 3:Now we're going to a culture discussion, so yeah, but I'm saying, like with the kids, tavian is going to try 40 billion apps. Like my man's gonna look at it and be like let's give it a try. He's gonna either try going to look at it and be like, let's give it a try. He's going to either try to look at it so he can learn something from it, like how it's coded or what's going on. He's going to download 40 billion apps and I guarantee you, at this moment he doesn't have the discernment to know which ones in the Google Play Store are reputable and which ones are not. And so I would also say there is kids, and since we, we know that there are numerous families who just give their kid a device. Uh, I'm not even talking about what, I'm not even trying to turn into a content, uh um thing. I'm just saying in a general, downloading apps and messing things up. I do think the jitterbug effect would help kids.
Speaker 2:See, I agree at some point, like I think we. This is why I say Apple people versus Android people. I'm not saying Apple has no value to anyone. I'm saying most use cases that's the case. You just gave 100 percent. That person probably needs a jitterbug. That sounds like a person who requires a bug and I agree with you. I'm just saying in most use cases that's really not the case.
Speaker 1:they're getting an apple product because everyone else gets an apple product and they haven't actually looked at anything else okay, let's move, I see, but let's move to the pricing aspect of it, because that's always made me scratch my head of why this is so offensive to people Like I cannot believe that Apple will charge this amount of money over than what it's worth and then they walk into Michael Kors and buy a bag, then they go and purchase a pair of shoes that are well like like that's just what we do.
Speaker 1:I mean like to say something to like put Apple on some type of pedestal of supposed to be ethically quote unquote not ethically, that's probably not the right word, but just they're supposed to have some high standard of like you know what? We only need to get this much margin on this phone here. Like the fact that you can charge whatever you want is a wonderful right in free market economy, and the fact that you get judged for what you charge, that people are still buying and you're the richest company in the world. In fact, you're in a lawsuit because you are so powerful. That's really why are we bringing this into question, anton? I'm just wondering why is who cares that they're charging premium price? People are buying it. I mean, just like Michael Kors. People are buying it.
Speaker 2:I guess I don't understand your whatever. I'm not upset that Apple is selling it, I guess. That's again, I guess, the delineation. I am bothered by the fact that people are buying it, not that Apple is selling it. I think Apple, of course, should have the freedom to sell it. I just think, it's again, there's no justification for said prices. That's why, again, when Aaron did the thing yesterday, we did the condo analogy.
Speaker 2:It's the same way I feel about a lot of luxury vehicles. That's why I compared it to that, because you're paying so you can say you own something that's supposedly expensive and has value when it gets made very cheaply, with not the best anything, doesn't have the best software, doesn't have the best hardware and it's just priced more than others with no justification, and then I'm going to sell you it. I could have just made this usbc like 20 years ago. Actually I'm exaggerating when I say 20 years ago. I was saying I could have made usbc a long time ago, but I chose not to. Just so I can make a cable that only I make that you'd have to come to me to buy. Like I said to me, it's the same people who will talk about crony capitalism being a problem will be like why is it a big deal? They overcharge and they gouged the entire United States. Of course they're gouging us, but we like it. It's like I don't. I don't understand the argument. I really don't.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to do it in a free country. I'm saying that it's morally reprehensible to charge people expensive prices for things that clearly do not contain that much value. But OK, but do you feel that they are charging for the future as well? Forgive me, so we're getting ready to go through our, our list to be able to then judge which one is which Right list, to be able to then judge which one is which right. So do you feel that when you pay 999 for said device at apple, that not only you're paying for that, but you're paying for the fact of updates for the next however many years is?
Speaker 1:that the same, that's every phone no, it's not no, because android, I mean their flagship phone, 2019 flagship phone isn't supported.
Speaker 2:So that's four years, four years you get on Android, like right now, for Samsung it's seven, I think, for Google it's eight. As far as updates, some, like you, can say that Apple has a slightly longer update window. Sure, if that's the argument, they probably do. I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't know Apple's update, but it's definitely not significant to where most people are not holding on phones for seven to eight years anymore. That's not a thing that typically I mean you're not holding on to phones, but people buy phones that are already three to four years old. And so therefore, if you were to buy because when you say android it usually covers all of them, you're talking flagships, you know, but I'm saying, like the android phone that many person, just many people, just just purchase that don't really understand that. Oh wow, there's only a bazillion kind, because Android is a free type of operating system that manufacturers can pretty much put on any type of device and so therefore, they're just like well, this is a Droid, this is what everybody's talking about, and they buy it, and then it's not supported in a year, has security patches, clear vulnerabilities that are there. I just don't feel as clean. I mean, obviously it's not as clean. But to say that it's not okay, that Apple's like, when you pay, you are confirmed. There is no iOS device that you have purchased, that's within the last, however many years, as long as you're on that list.
Speaker 1:Going back to iPad, 10th gen, I mean a 9th gen, 8th gen, whatever it is, you know, if you have anything on this list. You're good, you know that. So I guess with Android, with it being so open-ended, I think that there's a justification in my mind at least that when you're purchasing this product, you're guaranteed that this product will be supported without security patches, without any type of issues that you're going to have to worry about for the next said number seven, eight years. You mentioned last episode about Girl Aaron's computer from 2011 still being supported in 2024. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3:Like that's pretty it's not still supported, just for the record. I don't mean to beat your point down. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, I shouldn't say still supported, but it's functional. But the thing is with it being the device that it is, because it is an Apple product, we can definitely say, aaron, that it's not riddled with some type of malware that's causing it to not be able to function correct, correct, you could have some type of security issue. Whatever it is, I doubt very seriously because it's an Apple device. But you might have that. But you still have functional value after that point. So I'm just wondering about the aspect of like well, there's another one that's better and faster.
Speaker 2:There's an old joke and it's about PCs and Macs and it's if uh, pcs and x and it's um, okay, if you, um, if you buy a pc, you can still. If you get a virus on a pc, well, the the thing is, you can get a virus on a pc, but you can still afford. Yeah, but you would still be able to afford a doctor, and I agree with that 100 that what you're describing is like there's. You would. If you bought an Android that was as old as you say, what did you pay? $10?, like you put a $10 investment down to get an old phone and it didn't work out. I would say that's far better than putting $1,200 into something you don't need. Like, an old Android phone is practically free, like right now even a google pixel 7 pro, which will that run you?
Speaker 2:6.99. No, it really doesn't. This is where I would disagree. Like phones are inherently not valuable. They're not investments. That's why, when you say they're holding value, it's a silly thing to say like they're not investments you can say it's a silly thing, but I'm getting the money for it, so it could be money, but you paid the money up front.
Speaker 2:What you're getting with Apple is the market value. You can say the market value hold because the market value is higher, but at the same time, the same version of a PC or Android phone would have cost you $500 less. So the money you think you're proverbially losing in the investment transaction is not true. All you're doing is keeping the overinflatedness. You're keeping that $500 that you paid extra. That's not an investment, that's nothing. That just means they took $500 from you that you might be able to get back by ripping off someone else. You didn't make any money. The money you had you already overpaid. That didn't make any money. The money you had you already overpaid. That doesn't make any sense. It's much like a luxury vehicle. When people say Lexus have a good resale value, it's like compared it to Lexus. No, you pay $50,000 more for a Lexus. Now, from that extra $50,000, you may retain 30, but you already overpaid. If you would have just bought the Toyota, you would actually have that money.
Speaker 1:But by buying the luxury product, all you did is the money they ripped you off you pass some of that off to someone else, that's it, but in the meantime, you get the experience. In the meantime, though, you get the experience. It's kind of like Duluth trading underwear. It's like you can keep wearing your Hanes and they're cheaper, but, duluth, you're going to pay for all the ones you're going to replace up until that point. And the thing is, while you're over there with wedgies, I'm good, I've been good, my experience has been amazing.
Speaker 2:But I think you have to demonstrate which is my point. You need to be able to demonstrate why the product is better.
Speaker 1:Then let's do it right now.
Speaker 2:We can do that right now. That's what we're not arguing.
Speaker 1:I've made a list. So the episode people know if you're Android, you're like on Team Anton and you're going woo-woo-woo right now. So here's what this is. This is from MKBHD. He did this video a while back and, as he was, he was like going through seven different categories. Had to be an odd number because you want to be able to break any ties and it was like okay, if you want to know for yourself, android or Apple, go through this list and fairly, as best you can, fairly from your knowledge, go through each one of these categories Customization features, apps, excitement, which I'll define updates. Ease of use, customization features, apps, excitement, which I'll define updates, ease of use and ecosystem. Right, you go through those seven and what I got is I have all of our names up here and I am going to put which one you think wins each category fairly as it stands alone, nothing else. You give it a point if it stands alone. So let's go ahead and do this and then we're going to call this and then, at the end of the day, I think this is kind of a little test for fun as we finish up. So, customization, aaron, anton, I need your vote. Customization, I mean this to look at a device, it doesn't matter how you feel about Android, apple you can't add any extra little feelings in toward it. But when you look at a device Apple and Android customization, the fact that you can take your phone do extra features turn on. Let's just say, the focus mode that we were talking about last time, maybe changing the media volume and the ringer volume independently one another. That's kind of a customizable feature. Customize what your home screen looks like when you just take it as is.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna vote first. I'm gonna say Android wins this category, because I do think it's quite irritating that on my home screen I cannot be able to change my media volume and ringer volume Independently one of another without it being like okay, go into settings. Then it's like with my buttons. I then change my media within the buttons, then I forget which one I did it for. It's pretty simple Android, you can kind of use them independently. I'm just using that as an example.
Speaker 1:Customizations it's no trick. I mean you can't make an iPhone ugly. You really can't, unless you have an ugly picture. You can't make it ugly Like there's a control factor that they have, so there's just so much customization. If I can't make it ugly, then that means I can't make it as pretty as maybe somebody else can. So I'll give fair point Android, you can make it. You can make an ugly Android and only have one app and it's goofy to get around, but for the most part it's going to be. But so much. So I'm going to vote Android for this category. I'm going to put an A here for Android. Aaron, what's your vote?
Speaker 3:Because of what you said about the dynamic island and such, I'm going to say Android.
Speaker 1:Android gets customization to be able to do it. Anton, customization, which one we?
Speaker 2:got. Yes, it's Android. It's not very close Are you sure?
Speaker 1:Are you sure, Anton? Do you want to change your answer?
Speaker 2:I'm good, I'll see if Apple gets any points.
Speaker 1:Now, anton, we're going to be fair about this, right, I'm going to be fair, I'm going to be fair, okay, okay, all right, let's go to customization. I think it's an easy one. I think that's hands down. It equals Android. So, second one what about features, features, features features, when you talk about different reverse charging, different reverse charging, like how a device you can turn it over, contact bumping, whatever it's called. What's it called? On Android, anton, when you bump your phone, what's it called? It's called. When you bump your phone, aaron. On Apple, what is it called?
Speaker 3:I know what you're talking about. Are you meaning when?
Speaker 2:you're training data by bumping your phone.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, that depends on which Android version you have.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:I just hope that none of them call it contact bumping, please. That marketing department needs to be fired.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I probably should have used a better use of choice Features, so we'll go ahead. Anton, you start this one off this is Android. Features category. You're going to go with Android.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, I'm just saying like.
Speaker 2:I don't know of a feature that Apple has that Android does not have.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's fair, aaron. What about you?
Speaker 3:I mean honestly, if I have to call it, I'm going to say it is going to be Android. If we're talking about the average user, it's going to be android. If we're talking about me, then I'm going to say apple. But if we're talking about the regular everyday person, then I'm going to have to say it is going. I'd have to give that to android.
Speaker 1:Okay, I, I would agree that features would go to android too, as well. And here's why. Here's why, because I do believe that android is. So what's the word if they, they? They experiment all the time the time. If you think about it, when you look at Apple, look at the calculator app. You look at other things, it hasn't changed, zero. Look at their camera app, it hasn't changed. And I'm not saying that's bad, but I'm just pointing out feature-wise Android try anything, they'll try. If somebody's like hey, look, you know, people really are into pickleball, so we're going to put a pickleball display that every time you do it, you got to press this button to let the pickleball go, like, they'll try it in their next update. Apple's not going to do that, right? So, feature-wise, I'm not saying that all their features work, but I am going to say that all the features that they will try, they will always do, they will always use them. So I will say features, as it just baseline features. Android does win the category.
Speaker 1:Now, third category, apps. Aaron, no, I'll start with this one, because we're kind of going back. Or, aaron, do you want to start? Does it not matter for you? It doesn't matter for me? Okay, I'm going to keep it going backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards. So I'm going to start with this one apps. Clearly, it's not even a competition for me. It's iphone. It's not even a competition. The app store versus the google play store? There's not even a question about it. The um, the range of apps, not necessarily for number's sake, because in this case, quantity, quality, come on. This is not, it's not an argument that we need to have. We have more that don't work. So I mean, it doesn't. Really, that's not really a thing. So I won't go on and on about it. I'm just going to say, clearly, apple wins this category. So iphone, aaron, what about you?
Speaker 3:I'm going to say with quality apps. Yes, I believe, because most manufacturers of apps do I mean not all of them, but a lot of them will put an ios app out first yes, they'll prioritize that yes, and so I would say apps would go to um ios also anton, what about you apps?
Speaker 2:I agree. I think that's the greatest shortcoming of android is the iphone.
Speaker 1:So we're gonna go with apple. So apple wins that round down, hands down, not with a whole lot of competition. Now, this is a subjective one, and so we're going to get with it. Get with it, we're going to then take this into account.
Speaker 1:But excitement, and the idea of excitement that he was describing was kind of the idea is that it's I don't want to call it like you know which one does bar tricks and which one does kind of thing like, like which one kind of? Just you just like it. You know what I mean. Like the, the, the UI of it is just appealing, because we don't really have a UI category, user interface for those that don't like that terminology. A user interface Like it's just fun, like interacting with it. You know cause sometimes you just open your phone up and you just play with it, right, because it's just well, look at this, you can pull this screen down here, you can do this, you can do that. It just feels cool, like that. Which one do you think does that more for you, anton? An Apple device, iphone device? I mean, I wouldn't give you two options Android or Apple.
Speaker 2:In that case, this is Android, this is android and again okay, it's also not close it's that apple has done the same thing for the last 10 years, like just what you said a couple seconds ago. Like every time the android has an update, android can do something it couldn't do. Now, again, am I even going to say like, uh, when you, if you use a samsung, and they made the bigs b update, and it doesn't all the things bigs b can do now, versus what it could do, all the things that your Google interface does that it used to not be able to do, the way it even interacts with other Android devices, and how Google and Samsung have made a lot of interweaving software, all these things are just uniquely Android, whereas Apple so sits alone as an ecosystem that a lot of things do not interact with it. Well, it doesn't have the same, yeah, as I would say, an Android does.
Speaker 1:Aaron, what about you Interesting? I can get you saying For me.
Speaker 3:Of course, I'm trying to be objective as I can, but I'm also more excited about iPhone stuff than Android. But I'm trying to think of it's like the playoffs right now, which Minnesota?
Speaker 1:Tournament Rules will probably be out at the time you listen to this.
Speaker 3:Um, but I'm gonna say but I'm gonna say like I I'm fine with anthony edwards, but I would rather see luca win. So yeah, he's, even though anthony is way more of an explosive player. I really like watching lu Luca play ball because sometimes he just amazes me at the things that he does. So for me it's hard to be super objective because I just like what I like. So for me, I'm going to have to give that to Apple, because I do look forward to watching Apple events and things like that, whereas I am a tech enthusiast and I've watched Google things, but they're not exciting to me. They sound like engineers talking about stuff versus like an Apple is like to me, an entertaining experience. It's like all the transitions in the videos like oh, how did they do that? And trying to figure out. So for me, like the product excitement. I know that my new iPad probably is even, as MKHD would say, is the same iPad that they gave me the last time. I know that, but the way they presented it was exciting.
Speaker 1:I think it's just what matters to each individual person too as well, because my vote in this one is definitely going to be iPhone. Oh my goodness, we thought we were being fair folks.
Speaker 1:Let me explain my fairness. Let me explain my fairness. But what means to me like, okay, like Aaron was just at our house not too long ago, you know, came for a visit and we had a good time and chatted and stuff. But like one thing I like. I like clean man, like my kids. It's like as soon as they left, it's like this house is going to be spotless. I like clean, I like it when it's just pretty, and so for me it's like when I've never gotten an Apple device that has smudges all over it.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying I got an iPhone, I'm not saying I got an Android device with it, but you know they prioritize the cleanness and that look of it it gives to the experience. Like when I go out to eat with Tabtha, this could be a greatest little shack to eat, but it does matter that it's truly a hole in the wall. Like it matters to me because if it's like the guy's coming out with dirty fingernails but these are the best burgers in town, I don't care if these are the best burgers in town, go clean your fingernails. You know. Like, basically, the excitement that I get around a device is just pretty clean, simplistic, like it's the entire style.
Speaker 1:I don't think I'm just so enamored by the marketing, but I'm not going to ignore that the marketing does not speak to me as well, because every marketing person has now even gone after the Apple way of a simplistic look. Look at people that do social media posts and stuff. They go for that same simple look that Apple does. Because it's just people like just being like Ben Watson's quotes that he does on his social media, like God loves you. That's all the quote says, but it's all black and just white letters God loves you. You could have said that a bazillion ways. But see, I've seen old ladies do that on Facebook where they have a person with a big flower with flashing neon light God loves you. We look and say that really is creepy. But when you simplistic Apple, it makes a difference. I say, for me, the simplistic beauty of it gives Apple that vote. That's just my thought.
Speaker 2:The audience. This is very biased. That's just me. No one had any interest in coming in to have a fair conversation.
Speaker 1:I did not.
Speaker 2:Aaron's talking about a TV show.
Speaker 1:This is the most subjective, though Excitement is the most subjective.
Speaker 2:What does the TV show have to do with whether the product is exciting? Because that's what we're talking about the product.
Speaker 3:Because they make it sound exciting Sound again.
Speaker 2:do you see the keyword there?
Speaker 3:Sound exciting I called that, did I not?
Speaker 1:call that. I literally said, Anton, you have a Black Panther thing in your house. It's because of a video that you like it. Obviously, it's like what I'm saying it's a literal movie.
Speaker 3:This is a literal ad, have you ever watched an apple thing?
Speaker 2:it's a little watched apple and that's what I'm saying like it's different, it's magical. If you ask me what's a better system, just objectively I can say playstation. But I am also aware that nintendo switch puts on a better show. Nintendo has a way better show. It flashes back the guy from smash brothers comes out and does a little dance and talk.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a better show.
Speaker 2:That's a different question than the product. The thing we're talking about is a product. You and Adrian aren't talking about the product. Adrian's like something about dirty. Have you ever had a dirty Android device? Well, no.
Speaker 3:Then what are you talking about?
Speaker 2:You're talking about nothing.
Speaker 1:You're arguing it's a dirty thing that doesn't exist. I say I'm pointing out that there's just. There's a presentation that apple has of cleanness. That is synonymous with apple, not just I've just, that's synonymous with excitement. What is the question? Yes that excites me, like right, like right now when I get off the phone. Guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna clean this desk thoroughly. That I am at why? Because I that excites me, I like it clean. But anyway, let's keep going. But what is?
Speaker 2:the unclean thing. That's why we're like you keep acting, I know that's what is the object. What are we talking, oh?
Speaker 1:because android will put like a business of design on my phone, like the last time I had an android, like, for example, when I was overseas which was only what. Two years ago I was overseas and I needed to buy a device. Because I bought an Android device. Do you know how much time it took me to uninstall all the garbage that was on there? Do you know? Every time that I got ready to do a simple task, it was like don't you want to download this? Oh, do you really see this? Oh, this new ad right here. All I'm trying to do is order a pizza using this app. And now I have all of this bloatware that was already installed on this device that I have to literally go through and comb out, and God forbid the day that I have to restore the device back to its original settings so I can start all over again. That's not clean. I don't have to do that I'm going to add.
Speaker 2:I think this is another problem we're running into. Okay, are we actually talking about two devices that are the same value? Or is this a low-end Android like an HTC valued far less under $500 versus an iPhone 15? Like, yes, I agree with that, but to me, you're probably comparing two inferior products. One is clearly cheap, one is clearly expensive. We're not talking about a flagship, we're not talking about a normal device that most people who say when they have an Android are comparing a Pixel, a S series, a high end Huawei, okay, or are we comparing a cheap, budget version of an Android to a great iPhone?
Speaker 1:Like here's. The thing is there is no cheap version of the iPhone.
Speaker 2:Okay, but again, dude. But that's not the point. My point is then you're making a false comparison. To act like this phone is indicative of Android.
Speaker 1:If I put the iPhone SE up to any of these, it'd blow it away.
Speaker 2:But we gotta get to updates. We gotta get to updates. We got to get to do I not a pixel. I'm not saying blow away a pixel, but I'm saying I'm saying a pic. The low-end pixel, a pixel 8a would be fine, but that's also not what you're talking about. You're not talking about a low-end flagship either. You're not talking about the samsung fe.
Speaker 1:You're talking about a trash android so far, the little stats show that anton is definitely on track of being the Android user. So let's do the last three, the updates. All right, that's another one, because people don't think about this a lot of times, but it's super important is the longevity of the device, and so I think I start this time, or, anton, no, anton, you start this time. Apple, apple, apple wins the, I think by far.
Speaker 2:I think Apple again sticks by its devices longer, and because they have again Android, because there's so many different types of Android, there's not going to be. Even if they were to keep updating your device it may not be as good for your particular device as an Apple product where they only really make one kind of device.
Speaker 1:Okay, anton, aaron, what about you Updates?
Speaker 3:I was actually trying to think through this one, because this one was the hard one for me, because I'm not familiar with Android updates. But in my mind I was actually before Anton said I was, so I'm going to stick with my original answer. I was going to give it to Android, but then Anton said something, since he knows Android better, that made me think, like maybe it's not. But I just in my mind thought Android, because I do know that iOS does wait for certain things before they do an update. So, like, like I was 18. We know when it's going to happen, we know what's going on. We don't know what's going to be, but it's like clockwork. And so I didn't know if Android just updated, like if Samsung just updated their phones when they're ready to. So I didn't know what that was like.
Speaker 1:So are you going for iPhone or Android?
Speaker 3:Anton, what would that be like?
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, samsung does do that, but that's what I'm saying. I don't find the because updates are not phone specific. Gotcha, until both people make an update, it can cause problems, which usually they're going to for large patches or the actual Android update, but I mean for the actual Android update. It's going to it for large patches or the actual android update, but I mean for the actual android update it's going to be together. But for non-android updates, uh, like the patch updates, I would say that iphone does that better and longer all right, then I'm going to go with iphone
Speaker 1:my ignorance has been uh fixed gotcha, I go.
Speaker 1:clearly this is going to cross the board. The iPhone for me is updates. I say iPhone because I mean when you are going to an app store and you're looking for a device and you find, man, this is the coolest app ever. The thing you look for at least I look for is when was the last update put up? The developer responded three years ago. It's like, oh so, this was a good app. But now they either got absorbed or it was somebody's pet project that went really well, but it was only for a season.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to invest my time into an app. That's why I use the apps that are on Editor's Choice, goodnotes, notability. Those are the ones I use because they're going to be around, they're not just going to get absorbed. And so for me it's like, if you're not going to update, even if I, it's going to be hard for me to have a flagship device. Look at my friend who's rocking some new feature and I can't rock it because I'm just waiting for my update. You know, that's just. That's just kind of weird, because with Apple it's kind of fair Everybody gets at the same time. That's fair, it's predictable and I like that aspect of it. It's predictable. I know that it's going to roll out and I usually wait whenever it rolls out middle of the day. And there I am, I have it.
Speaker 1:Let's quickly go through the last two Ease of use. Ease of use I think this is what I'm going to start off. There's no comparison. For me it's going to be iPhone, since it's the jitterbug for adults, then I do not see how we can say that anything else. The ease of use for the iPhone is clear. You can hand it to a child. They figure it out, aaron. What about you? There's not too much to say there.
Speaker 3:Oh, agreed, I'm going to say for the older people, as a pastor, that I've helped with their phone over and over and over again. I'm going to see it's a views ghost dot apple all right, anton, apple, apple, apple.
Speaker 1:All right across the board. We're getting now down to the wire. All right, last one tiebreaker for somebody on this list um, ecosystem, ecosystem. I think I know Aaron's guess on this one, but we're going to start with. Let's see. Oh, anton, we're going to start with you Android, android, yes. I think it has the most flexibility.
Speaker 2:I think Apple is too rigid.
Speaker 1:All right, Aaron. What about you?
Speaker 3:I mean again, I've never been outside of the ecosystem that I am in. So this is me talking about what it's like to live in california when I've only lived on the east coast.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to say ecosystem goes to apple all right, and it's not even the walled garden is the walled garden and I don't mind it. I'm talking to a guy and and again, I, I do think that the the ecosystem if you're in samsung's ecosystem, I mean, good night, you can add a refrigerator to your app right, our dishwasher, our washer and dryer exactly that's again like that's the.
Speaker 3:Uh, that is a whole nother thought for me that's a cool.
Speaker 1:That's a cool part of the ecosystem for me. But I do like a little bit of diversified because I have a Roku TV, roku soundbar with Govi lights so those kind of things play well together. It's not like everything, because let's not pretend Apple doesn't make everything and I think I'm okay that I don't have an Apple car pulling up to my Apple house and talking to my Apple lights. You know, I like that. It's Philip Hugh lights, I like it. That is a little bit things Now. I like it.
Speaker 2:But I'm saying that's the thing with Android. I mean it's you can have a pixel, have a pixel and the same. So I'm like you can have a pixel and go Google Home and do all that. I think you're saying to you and to me that's something you don. Actually, apple requires you to stay within a guard. You can build out however far you want with an Android. It's the same thing with customization. That's what I'm saying. It plays well with far more things at a far lower price, because the things that Apple plays well with are exceptionally expensive. There are no low-end ways around it, they're just expensive.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I can get behind that, because Apple did make me very upset this past keynote because of the fact they didn't make their Apple Pencil backwards compatible to the old iPhone and that was a clear power move that you have to buy the new device, and I hated that because once you get in, then it's kind of like so I will take a ding from Apple from that. Um, so I think actually I'm gonna. I think because of that and I forgot that you can live in both of those I will I'm gonna go android with ecosystem because solely because that once you get in the wall garden, it's easy for somebody to abuse being within the wall garden and so I will put that, I will give it to android on that one.
Speaker 3:Can I ask a question? When we start saying ecosystem, I don't think, because Apple doesn't make a refrigerator. That's the hard part for me. They may interface with a refrigerator, but Samsung does make a lot of products. To me it's a little bit Apple to oranges For me.
Speaker 3:When I'm thinking ecosystem, I'm thinking through what it is for me to use all my devices seamlessly across the thing that I can pick up my AirPods and me and Aaron can like listen to the Apple, to watch Apple TV at night together on Apple TV, but then all I do is walk out of the room and look at my phone and also my AirPods will play with on my phone.
Speaker 3:Versus like grabbing my iPad, like the way I study for um, a sermon or whatever. Like grabbing my Mac book and having Kindle open on my iPad and looking at a quote and just copying and sliding it over onto my device, my Mac book, so that I can continue just typing what I'm trying to do while looking at my Bible app on my um this is the first world problem my second, ipad, so that I I can like slide that verse over there, like that's what I see as ecosystem and to me that wins. Like Apple doesn't make a refrigerator, it doesn't make lights. It may interface with some things, but I'm glad for that, so that I guess I'm still seeing what I'm seeing. But I am trying to just make the clarity of what I was thinking through and I'm trying to just make the clarity of what I was thinking through.
Speaker 2:But I think this is the thing that I say about everything with Apple, you're getting all that plus, because I can do the same thing with my Galaxy Buds and my Galaxy Book and look at my Samsung TV, do everything you just referenced, while having my Samsung Tab 7 open and do everything you just said. Plus I can also look in my refrigerator. Plus I can also start something like it's what you can do plus.
Speaker 3:That's why, to me, apple does fewer things in some, and in some cases slightly better, but significantly fewer things yeah, and I think go ahead I would say, for me the better, because, like again, like I can pick up any device that I have and like, if I'm staying in the grocery store and edit photos and the app that I use to edit photos, it doesn't exist on any other platform and so for me, the ecosystem is still. It's still the thing. Like I can go to my Mac book and start editing a photo and be like, oh, I got to go to the store and while I'm staying in the store, and be like, oh man, I'm going to tell you to edit that photo while I stand here and wait, and so for me, like those things, that that's ecosystem stuff and it may happen on android. I've not lived outside the garden, so all right.
Speaker 1:So here's the score, gentlemen. A clear round went to android for customization and features. Clear round all burden brothers voted. Android wins those categories. Clear rounds went went to iPhone for apps, updates and ease of use, leaving the final score that Aaron, with a score of 5-2, is iPhone, adrian with a score of 4-3 is iPhone and Anton, with a score of 4-3, is Android. So I think we're using the right devices, guys, even though I would like to think that, hey, I gave a fair nod to it, but I still think no Aiden would be on Android if it wasn't for that one goofy one where he was talking about dirty nails.
Speaker 2:We would have been on Slush. That had nothing to do with anything. It would be an objective if we'd have been a horse slush it had nothing to do with anything, it would be an objective, we'd be on the same side.
Speaker 1:And we all didn't even bring money into this. I like clean. Can you remember that I like clean? Did we talk money, though that wasn't on the list Exactly, and that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:You add money. So again it's three, four with your dirty nails, plus we haven't even brought up money.
Speaker 1:Get out of here, bro. You need to go eat lunch. You're just in a grumpy mood. That's what's going on. You just need to go eat lunch, Anyway, well we have discussed upside and downside this discussion. It was supposed to be fun, but Anton made it violent. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3:Anton made it violent. I'm just kidding. Anton made it violent. I think you should have some shots too.
Speaker 1:Oh, come on, I didn't start off the gate of talking about Apple supporters and Trump supporters.
Speaker 3:okay, the jitterbug is still the best comment for me. You said something earlier in this podcast. I've got to remember what it was, but there was quite a shot taken back the other way.
Speaker 1:You talk about android users, so condescending I think that android users are great people because their image bears the lord jesus christ. They just need to think about their choices. No, and again, it's like, and it's for each individual person, I, just I, I and so I will. I will concede on that. I think Anton and I can agree that. You know, look, if you're handing your kid a device how Anton even conceded about the hand-kidding device you just want to be as safe as possible. You want the jitterbug for them, then, yes, this is going to be the way to go. I think Anton just has a problem with the elitism that happens on either side Well, either side, whether apple or android. The elitism that I'm more awesome than you because I paid more for this device than you, when a lot of the features are pretty much equal across the playing field and so we could agree upon those planes?
Speaker 2:I think at least anton, can we not? Oh yeah, I said mine has never been. That's why I said like I have no problem saying apple makes fine phones. The issue only becomes when I think it's over. People believe Apple makes a superior product. That is where you will see me. I don't know about that, especially for most people. I don't think what Apple's doing. Most people don't need the thing they're paying for. They're paying for an excellent camera that they're not going to use. They're playing for someone to keep, just like you said, apps closed which you can do yourself. It'll take a two minute tutorial on YouTube. They're paying for a lot of things they don't actually need. I don't think people know enough about electronics. I understand. I don't need this. I'm being ripped off. It's like to me again, like I said, a car dealership with a little guy sitting there. Yeah, you need the extended warranty and the extended extended plus plus care package, otherwise your entire life will be over. And then and to me, that's the problem I have with Apple.
Speaker 3:See, that's the only part where I disagree with you, that you call it a ripped off. I don't believe I'm being ripped off. Nobody is being ripped off.
Speaker 2:That's how they're getting ripped off.
Speaker 3:I'll go back to the first time.
Speaker 1:Someone showed me Start this conversation again.
Speaker 3:No, because the first time someone showed me my photography had value. I guess one thing to like be at the low end or not even the low end, just like trying to make margin. But it does change, like right now. I know of wedding photographers who charge thirty thousand dollars for a wedding, but you can say that they're getting ripped off the person who paid thirty thousand dollars for the wedding. But I can tell you for the most part those photographers that I know that do it. You are going to get what you paid for.
Speaker 3:At some extent, like you're going for a superior product and I know that you don't believe iphone is I mean apple is a superior product. And I know that you don't believe iPhone is I mean Apple is a superior product. But for the things that I do it is. So I don't believe I'm getting ripped off. I've used Windows PCs. I've used different devices not Android devices for photography and things. But I'm saying I've used them and I don't in any way feel like I'm getting ripped off. When I got my new MacBook, not at all do I feel like I got ripped off. I've seen the alternatives. I got my new MacBook. Not at all do I feel like I got ripped off. I've seen the alternatives. I've used Adobe products on Windows machines. I know there's guys right now that I can think of their names that love using them on Windows machines.
Speaker 3:I don't. I hate it. I hate that when I'm in the middle of something, it's like we're going to update in five, four, three, two, one. What's happening? I'm in the middle of working. What are we doing? I hate that. So I don't feel like I'm getting ripped off and that's my only pause. For what you're saying. I agree with you that it's a premium price, I agree with. But I'm willing to pay the premium price because I want the premium things. I want to be able to walk back into the Apple store, hand them this computer and be like hey, something's wrong, give me a new device versus calling 500 companies no, it's not Dell, that's a Windows problem. You're going to have to call the Windows place. No, it's not us, it's Dell. You're going to have to talk to Dell. I just want to walk back and enhance my laptop and say this is the problem and I've done it. That's the part I'm willing to pay for it.
Speaker 2:I might say one more thing.
Speaker 1:Un mas.
Speaker 2:Then our poor audience. We're gonna have to go on. I love aaron dearly. This is a thing that aaron does because he's an ultra compassionate person and it's very empathetic. No one is talking about you, aaron, no one at all. The conversation is a generality.
Speaker 2:I agree that what I'm saying is not true for everyone. For example, you're bringing up photography. You are are a talented photographer. How much of the general population is actually doing what you're doing? That's the point I'm making. See, you need the added value.
Speaker 2:You require a camera that does this. Most people don't. Most people will never need any of the things you just described. My point is that everyone thinks they need. It is the problem. Everyone believes they need a camera that would make them professional photographer who makes $30,000. Those people require those tools and instruments because of their skill level, because of their creative work they're doing. Most people aren't doing that. That's all that I'm saying. I'm not saying you, I'm saying most people. Most people could use a mid-level camera because even now, what we call mid-level camera would have been the best camera like 10 years ago. Oh like, when we say the word mid-level, we're talking about literally a excellent camera for most use cases. Everything is best at about for $750 or less. I'll put $500, $750. Most people would have a phone that does significantly more than they needed to do. They're buying things they don't need because they're being marketed to as if, if you don't have an iPhone 15, you won't be able to take good pictures and unless, again, you're literally a professional photographer. That's ridiculous.
Speaker 3:I can agree with that 100%. I guess that's why it's hard for me to be objective, because I'm trying to think it through my use case versus everybody in the world use case and it's hard for me to separate those two.
Speaker 1:Well, well, well, I will say that in closing that honestly, it just kind of shows forth all of everything in life just phones, um, we buy nicer cars and we need. All you need is to get from point a to point b, be nice ass, air conditioning, but it's you know like. Basically, I think that this just really ripples into everything. I mean, in the united states of america we overeat. Why? Because we don't have to have that. I don't have to have sushi like we had the other day. I don't have to, you know. I mean, all I need is some protein and some carbs. You know'm going to need that because I believe I can do that, or I just want who use Apple products. So I will say, yes, anton, yes, that's definitely the case, but I'm just also making the cultural observation that that's not the same place. The same argument that can be used upon that cannot be used upon other areas of life.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, we went around the mulberry bush and put a lot of different things, discussed and went through all these customizations and all the features and apps and all that stuff. I know that everybody might not be a tech nerd, but maybe you are and you have thoroughly enjoyed all the nerdy chat and maybe you want to take the test or maybe you want to show forth us exactly who, why you are a Android fan or an Apple fan, or you don't care about any of it, fan one or the other. You just let us know in the comments. We'll be happy to hear it. But I do believe that we've kind of covered all those bases and stuff around there, so are as much as can be said at least. At least can be done. Are all hearts and minds clear? The gentleman.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir.
Speaker 1:Yep, all right, I think we remain unchanged in this, but with a greater understanding as we go forward. Thank you so much for joining us on this. Just for fun, chat here apple versus android on for burn for the times. Thank you so much for joining us and we look forward to you joining us next time.
