A Burden For The Times
A Burden For The Times
Prison Reform Tips and Tools: The Role of Churches and Communities
Explore the opportunities within prison ministry and learn why understanding prison culture is crucial before getting involved. We discuss various branches of ministry, from juvenile justice centers to specialized men's and ladies' programs, and recommend partnering with established organizations. Legislative impacts, such as President Biden's executive order on private prisons and the First Step Act, are examined, emphasizing the essential role of education in these initiatives. Discover how coalitions among local churches can bolster jail ministry efforts and contribute to fulfilling God's will.
You’ll find practical tips on how you can get involved, from offering a friendly presence to teaching essential skills, and realize how even small gestures can profoundly impact the lives of inmates and their families. Tune in to be inspired and learn how your involvement can make a meaningful difference.
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Hey, welcome to another episode of the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. If you were with us last time, you heard a different kind of podcast where Anton was pretty much the star. He kind of went through and talked through some things in a sermon format about prison reform, a lot of different information I remember listening to the first time and there were some aspects I didn't know even existed. So during this podcast, like we normally do when we follow up with a topic like that we kind of want to follow up with well, what do we do with the cultural information that we have been given so pretty much burden for the time style we call it it's time for tips and tools.
Speaker 1:We're going to play the rest of the part that Anton had, but before we do that, anton's with me on the podcast right now. Anton, first off, what were your thoughts about the presentation that you did at that church there in Ohio and just any questions that you received after. I know that sometimes, after you get done, you're like, oh, I wish I really had said that or maybe I should have really made sure that point was going to send home a little bit stronger. Any thoughts like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably several. First, obviously, for the listeners who do not know, that was Pastor Paul's church. So I think Pastor Paul Fradley, it was a very I'm not obviously a public speaker, so it was definitely an experience, and there are several things that I probably would have rephrased, said differently or just changed. I think, just coming into prison reform as a whole, I thought and I don't say this foolishly or try to be Aryan I thought a lot of people had more context as coming into the criminal justice system that I feel that I didn't. I thought a lot of people had more context as coming into the criminal justice system that I feel that I didn't. I thought you could skip square one and go to square two and I think a lot of people were at square one when you asked for questions.
Speaker 2:So I think a lot of the things that actually came up after that were questions, were just people being surprised that, you know, someone could be imprisoned and have a for profit prison.
Speaker 2:I think the entire concept of for-profit prisons to me I could have explained better. I just, like I said, I made assumptions of things I thought people would know and also just the context of people being able to be essentially modern day slaves and that really as a punishment for crime. Obviously slavery is legal in the united states and I think that went uh over a lot of people had. So a lot of questions revolved around that and also how to be a help, and I would have come again if we did it again. I would have come more prepared for that question because obviously, being in ohio, I'm not as familiar with you, know organizations I had not really um, whatever. I just have the national organizations, some, some of which they got in contact with, and even for me there's a lot of organizations that are here for specifically criminal justice reform and getting people who were formerly incarcerated into jobs, churches and things of that nature.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and I really think that listening to it and I think it pairs well I don't want to sound like a cooking show, like you should get this dish and it pairs well with this dish. But I do think that the two podcast series that were done one with the prison reform that we're talking right now and then the other podcast about foster care system, because that was where Pastor Paul, because that was where Pastor Paul he was pretty much the person we highlighted to really dig deeper into that topic a lot more. And what you find is, as those two podcasts are compared, there were a lot of similarities and I'll still not forget about the matter, about Little Leagues and Big Leagues and all the illustrations that were given concerning these two institutions. That definitely do need some attention and some cultural insight to be brought into. But I think, Anton, it was a sanctity of life month.
Speaker 1:Is that what you were speaking for? Yes, Okay, so the sanctity of life. I just really loved you know just the way that Pastor Paul at his church and I've spoken at his church and did the sanctity of life, where it's like a whole life type of mentality going forward. So even when you take sanctity of life, you're automatically thinking about abortion and different things that are going on in that sphere, but he pretty much goes through so many other aspects that many times are neglected, and so this prison reform is a matter of also a sanctity, of life type and style discussion. So, Anton, you highlighted there's some things that were there I think you're mentioning and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong but there was even a little bit of surprise at the fact that people were challenging you or even just had extra thoughts about the fact that a person could not vote. That was in prison. Would you run into that, or is that just something that I had heard just secondhand?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that was one of the questions and again it's a question I got several times and I've done this presentation now more than one time and that is something that is. Like I said, a common reoccurrence is that I don't think people really understand the prison system in any meaningful capacity. I think again it's about and again I'm being childish, but it's about as in-depth as like cops and robbers. It's like you just arrest them and after that it's like, well, I've never thought about that person again. Once the arrest was made, that person just disappeared. So obviously, them not being able to vote and also, just when they get out, the stumbling blocks that occur. This can affect housing vouchers, this will affect their representation through voting, this could affect again where they can work later in life and again, just the not even necessarily like a person pleading out, who gets out of jail on an ankle monitor, who has never actually served time in an actual prison, could have all these things removed from their life.
Speaker 2:I think was to a lot of people very eyeopening. But I guess I would just add and again I think I whatever is that a lot of um. I know most major cities now have a center for community transition. There's one that's usually federally funded and then there's usually a nonprofit, which I'd recommend the nonprofit in most major cities and again, this is not necessarily a Christian organization in all cities I know in ours it definitely has a Christian influence and I would encourage your city to have a Christian influence by having Christians work in, obviously, the center.
Speaker 2:But a lot of especially more left leaning cities have incorporated that in most major metropolitan areas and I was encouraged people to get involved and it primarily is helping with just exactly those issues we just raised with people getting housing and especially with families with kids and trying to make sure that those kids are taken care of, because it can be a very precarious situation, as you can imagine someone getting out of the prison system who has children the family's been moving on, but now that that person is back, just looking at it from even some practical standpoints, just that person, if they were able to get a job, will financially impact the family and necessarily might take them off benefits and doing a lot of things. That money management issues that a lot of people I mean you've been in prison for five, 10 years. Money management is probably not going to be at the highest whatever, it's not like they had savings usually while they were in prison, so just getting families together and working through those in a Christian counseling session can be very helpful. Yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I think you're going to address some of these different things of what a person can do for this question and answer time that we're getting ready to listen to. But can you just speak to this real quick before we get to that recording? And that is, I know, with our audience there's a lot of people who do church work and church ministries. What is your thinking concerning the Rock of Ages ministries and other ministries as well that have gone into prison systems, prison fellowship and others as well? You obviously seem to have some good connections within your community. Do you run into these people a lot? Do you not run into them a lot? Is it just very large in our mind because of the fact that it's within our normal context of life that we hear about Rock of Ages and these other places as well? What has been your interaction with these organizations?
Speaker 2:I have run into Rock of Ages a couple of times. It's not, as I think, as large as it possibly used to be, or maybe it's just not in my circle, but I would say that and I think you use this when talking about Pastor Paul's church a whole perspective of the person, and I think and again, and I am not minimizing anything that Rock of Ages does I just think that you have to take the whole person, and part of that is real life issues, and to me, they do not do a good enough job currently of handling real life issues. And when I say that, I mean well, how does this person get a job Like to me, rock of Ages, kind of and again, I'm not saying this, whatever it's, hand them a Bible and then, kind of that's my thing. And I think that there is some real world issues that you're going to have to work through that to keep these people Cause. Again, you don't just want people, in my opinion, you also want to disciple them.
Speaker 2:When I say that, you don't just want people to say that you've had a conversion, I want them discipled, and in a local church. That's my goal. So, and in my opinion, rock of Ages doesn't do that for people. So there are several other organizations that I think do do more. A whole perspective meaning that we're going to share the gospel but we're also going to acknowledge the fact that they're going to have earthly needs that also our church needs to be aware of and to help and that our people need to be educated on so that these people can serve Christ in a local body, an assembly of believers.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah, that makes that makes sense. Anything you'd like to add right before we get to the recording? Nope, that's, that's it All right, well, hey, well, hopefully that you enjoyed the question and answer time. We kind of put this as our tips and tools for this idea of prison reform, and so, as we turn to the courting, we thank you for joining us for this episode and, as always, look forward to join next time.
Speaker 2:And here is Anton for this episode and, as always, look forward to joining next time and here is Anton I would like to talk about ways we can actually ourselves as a society and especially as a church, help the prison system in general. Obviously, we have tips and tools for prison reform, and the first one is going to be one that if you find in Matthew, chapter 25, the prison ministry. If you remember when Jesus said, or when they asked, when did we visit you in prison, he says when you visited the least of these, now the prison ministry. I don't know, I guess I'll just ask for hands. Has anyone actually worked in the prison ministry? Okay, awesome, the prison ministry to me, is one of the most amazing ministries one can be a part of and there are just so many opportunities because there's so many layers to it. You have obviously the chance to work in JJC or juvenile justice centers, which is the opportunity to work with young kids, often kids who are growing up in very difficult situations, impoverished. You have some foster care kids and even after you have juvenile justice camps and being able to minister to kids in that way. You obviously have a ladies ministry because it's women in prison, and I mean that is an incredible opportunity to disciple in prison with young women as they're either entering the system right out of high school or as they're getting older.
Speaker 2:And then, when we talk about the men's ministry, I'm going to talk about a couple specific ministries. However, I do not want to take anything I say as a like as in, you need to join this particular thing. I'm just giving you a blueprint or an idea of what a prison ministry can look like. You know, when we think of prison ministries that are going into what I would consider higher security areas, such as Rock of Ages prison ministry, those kind of situations are going to be more of a long-term commitment, whereas I think what we're doing here in your area, starting at a local jail level, is going to be something slightly smaller. So I would recommend starting at a jail-like situation, and what I mean by that and I think in this area I don't know this area, but I'm going to assume based on the churches I've passed there are quite a few churches in this general area.
Speaker 2:Now, what is very important when working in jail ministry is to have a coalition. I think sometimes it is so sad with Christian churches is that they don't want to get together on any particular topic, although they live across the street, have in a lot of ways the same views, but getting together with them and starting such a jail ministry now what would that look like in our particular culture? What that would look like in a lot of ways is us, as Christians, calling. I know a lot of people don't like to do this, as people who are non-pastors. But if you really want to get into prison, the first thing is prison's like any other mission field, and when you're going to a mission field, you learn the culture, you understand the language, you know what people are going through so you can actually be a good witness for Jesus in that situation. And when I say that people are like prison's, not a completely different culture, well, I'll give you an example.
Speaker 2:In prison ministry often you'll find people, especially who are newer to prison ministry, and they'll give a bunch of Bibles and bookmarks. They'll buy all these supplies. However, in prison, if you aren't accustomed to the culture, you don't realize a person can only have so many personal items. So a person's going to either turn down your item not trying to be rude or take your item and have to get rid of something he probably didn't want to get rid of because you thought you were being polite but you weren't actually helping them. And in some cases, some prisoners become resentful of people who have a lot of personal items, a lot of attention, and that prisoner can get undue attention that he never wanted. So it's important, before we just again rush in, I would recommend and I brought up Rock of Ages in a lot of these places, because you can just go on their website and you can go with them, and that would be my first recommendation is to go to a prison, not as the guy who's going to be leading the service, just to see what it's like. Because, to be honest, in prison ministry, prison ministry is not going to be for everyone. I can assure you of that. When you go in there and the doors close behind you, it's a different feeling and that feeling is not going to be for everyone. That may not be what God has called you to do in this particular area, but I would say before you can actually say that I would go and try it with someone who's been there, someone who can coach you along, and with people who are, let's call them, professionals in the field.
Speaker 2:Now, next after prison ministry which again that's going to be one of my is legislation. Now, I know no one likes to talk about legislation. It is a bad topic everywhere. There are things that we already kind of agreed we know aren't right. Right when we think of paid prison system, which is what the executive order for people who don't know it's on the screen executive order to eliminate private prisons was passed by President Biden very recently and this order it's great. But if you read further, what you'll begin to understand is that it only eliminates private prison for non-US citizens. So we've kind of, as I talked about this morning, moved it to another group of people that is, the other now can occupy that exact same space. We haven't limited or gotten rid of it.
Speaker 2:So I would say this is something that, again, people, if you believe that to be a violation, then we do have the power to say that we don't believe that that's right. As a Christian community, we don't believe that is correct. Now I'm going to go through some of these and I'll probably go through slightly faster. There is nothing I would love more than for everyone here to be able to find a place where they fit in to, where they can help the prison system, because I genuinely believe, one, that that's God's will and two, that that is completely possible. So the next thing that I'll bring up quickly, number three, after legislation, well, here's the overview of the First Step Act, and then I think we're going to have the. That would be First Step Act, and then I think we're going to have the. That would be the executive order, and then education. We're going to spend a little bit of time on education because I believe this is one that a lot of Christians have overlooked.
Speaker 2:I'll speak for a moment to what we would consider the older generation in Christ, right, the retirees, because I think this is a place where, literally, at least in my area it's sad to see, but Muslims are doing it very well. I've seen Mormons do it incredibly well where we have retired people, because I wish to go along on several of these prison ministries that literally I can tell you in my area I can't find Christians to go with. I can find some Muslims, I can find some Mormons, but if you ask me right now to go, take you and find a group of Christians that are doing it, well, they're not and it does sadden me. You see, what these people are doing is I brought up the Muslims that are in our area. They go and they host workshops. They've called the prison ahead of time.
Speaker 2:They have some retirees men who have trade skills carpentry, mechanics, that sort of thing. They set up shop. They teach the prisoners marketable skills they'd be able to use outside the prison. They come there once a week. They have they are able because the prisoners are glad to get such training they're able to sit and witness to the and then they just do exactly what I just said. They're teaching them trade skills and then hopefully, a lot of those same Muslims. They're owners of small businesses, contractors, and they're willing to hire those prisoners. They've hired brothers of prisoners that are currently incarcerated and these prisoners know full well that these men will train them, help them and give them a job if they are capable and good at their job.
Speaker 2:Once they leave prison and it's a great form and most even in our area if you call your local magistrate, you set up an appointment, you show your proper licensing, which is not incredibly difficult to do you have the people with the skills. Obviously you need someone who actually knows how to do these trade skills. Most of these prisons are happy to let you do it because they don't have to pay teachers, so they're more than happy to say fine, you go ahead and do it, and if you need two hours of your religious time, that's on you, and we're kind of just taking that as the payment for you giving them this skill. And I would say this is a very lost opportunity in so many parts of the country because, with the lack of being able to find teachers, being able to find people who are good at trades if you have the time and either you are an educator as well, like we were talking obviously at this point in the normal education system as math, science and stuff of that nature prisons love for those people to volunteer, and you can, especially in the juvenile justice system and juvenile justice camps. They are literally posting billboards asking people to show up and do that exact same thing, and not only do you have the ability to witness to them, you have the ability to build long-term connections with these people as they go throughout their life, and this is one of the most lost opportunities in the prison system. Also, something that is happening in prisons is that they wish kind of like the public school system. Many people are trying to put a prison school system together. That would be pretty much similar in every aspect. Now, this is a piece of legislation that, again, it may or may not get passed, but that would change the outlook going forward of those opportunities, which is why it's so important to get them while they're still there.
Speaker 2:Fourth, family reunification. We talked about this before and it's another. I wish that churches were more involved in this, but there are two ways that. I've seen two programs one by the Prison Alliance and one run by Kairos, k-a-i-r-o-s. That two great prison organizations, I mean prison reform organizations that what they do is when a person is in prison you know, let's just say in our case I'll use my family as an example Like if I were sent to prison what they would do is first they find the timeline again, how long you're going to be incarcerated.
Speaker 2:They pick you with a pen pal from their church or from their organization. That person is going to keep in contact with you through the mail, sometimes via phone call, just to keep in touch how you do and touch base. They also have another family that's assigned to the family that's outside. So my wife there's going to be a family assigned to my wife Make sure she's okay, and the kids they're going to keep in touch with that family, even if that family is not a part of their church, but they'll do visits occasionally. Maybe I'll take her out to dinner not a part of their church, but they'll do visits occasionally. Maybe I'll take her out to dinner, maybe they'll take her out to dinner, or something else like that. Then when I get out, they not only usually there's like a, they do like a little church caravan and they meet the person as soon as they are released from prison. They have the family there, they take them home and then obviously they want them to be a part of their church and a part of their community.
Speaker 2:And if you've seen how many of those families are actually five years later because this program has been going on for around 15 years, so you've seen people who have gone through the program for five to eight years and you see how many of those families are now sitting in the back of the church. That's a beautiful thing and I think so many. That's a very missed opportunity. Now it's hard. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that that's going to be a simple thing and every time it's going to work out, it's not, but just that ability and do you understand, like when we talk about recidivism, people going back and forth to jail that the family structure. If you go again, statistically the easiest way I shouldn't say the easiest way the biggest determiner of whether a person will go back to prison is if they have a family when they get out. If you put that family back together, in most cases, again, nothing is always that is the safest place for that person not to go back to prison and not to revisit that crime.
Speaker 2:Now, lastly and we mentioned this before, I think I said number five would be because I think it's the thing that's. We say it kind of almost off the cuff prayers and support always means money. So people just don't think of it in that way. But in all reality, prayer is the strongest tool you have. We've made it into, like I said, the castaway thought, but it is not, and I do believe wholeheartedly, if we're not praying for the incarcerated, if we're not praying for the underprivileged in any sense on a regular basis, we're not doing prayer right. That's what it's for when God talks about pray without ceasing. That's exactly what he meant. Again, it wasn't an overstatement, it wasn't him just trying to draw attention.
Speaker 2:Secondly, support. I think again, when we think of support, we always go with money, but a big part of the support when it comes to the prison system is emotional and psychological. I think a lot of people do not understand what it does to a person, to any, honestly, any living creature to be locked in a cage for an extended period of time. You can take that on an animal anything you want to. It usually causes some problems and the idea of not needing any mental health Mental health in the prison system is another let's call it taboo topic that to really address it's going to take Jesus, if we're trying to again put a Band-Aid on it. It's going to take a lot of people supporting the person emotionally. Emotionally, I think, again, going back, I don't think you're actually going to be able to ever completely erase something that God has given someone else responsibility for. And I think in this case, when we talk about the prison system and how messed up it is in its case, it's going to be hard to completely eradicate the emotional issues it causes. There is no doubt about that. What I'm just saying is I believe prayer and emotional support can help it in its current state.
Speaker 2:The last thing before I did actually again want to turn it over to questions. When we talk about prison ministry, I think everyone kind of thinks there is an out out, if you will, that it's not necessary for me, it's not necessary, again, for my church, it's not necessary in our community because we don't have that much crime. It's not a big deal in any state and when I say state has many plays, prison ministry is always necessary. It is again. I think speaking up for the underprivileged is not ever a debate. There's not ever a well, I don't think I have to in this particular situation. The question is, how do I do it in this particular situation? There is no way around it. So if you're coming to the prison system, I would say, at the minimum, that last statement of prayer and support is where we have to be.
Speaker 2:That's the non-negotiables and that's why I wanted to finish with that. One is that so many times when I talk to people about the prison ministry and it truly breaks my heart because I go and I tell you it is so sad if you've never been in a situation when you see the Muslims, the Mormons and you have the truth, but no one else will go, no one else is interested. There's nothing more heartbreaking than watch someone else tell someone a story you don't believe about your God and you can't do anything. And I think there's so many times I. But I can assure you there's probably some other random guy in another church thinking I wish someone would call me Just give me the go ahead.
Speaker 2:I am ready to go. And if you are the person who's sitting here thinking no one else will go, go, just tell. Somebody else will come and I assure you, whether it's prison ministry, whether you say I used to be a carpenter, I can go do that. And again, someone who's like me I am not a talkative person, I am immensely shy. Honestly, I could sit at a table and say nothing for an hour and feel completely content. Would not bother me in the least. So when I get to something like prison ministry that is not.
Speaker 2:I'm not the guy who wants to preach, I'm the guy my brother preaches. I sit in the back, I find a friend and then I call it one-on-one discipleship or small groups. I'm your guy, I'm a star at that and that's why, when I bring up education, I know there's a lot of people who are like myself. You're not outgoing. You don't necessarily want to go to the prison and preach. It's a scary place In some cases, scary people. But I think you can go talk to one guy and say you know I did business in college and I could tell you how to budget, because I know you think that's not a big life skill. But to a guy who's been locked up since he was 15, that could change his life when he gets out. All of these minimal things that you think do not matter to you and I don't know that much. That's why I say, with the prison system, it's so beautiful because literally you could go talk to a 14-year-old at a juvenile justice center. You don't have to be a preacher at the prison who's trying to preach in front of a crowd. You can just take a guy who got out of jail out to lunch and I think to you that's not a big deal. But even when we think of people like and I guess just to go there but to think of people who are in the Innocence Project, people who are literally saying I am on death row, I am in jail for 35 years, I didn't do it, I imagine if you literally and again, I'm aware everyone in prison who says they're innocent is not I'm not naive.
Speaker 2:However, it's obvious that some are. So if, if some are and you were that person, think how much a note that just says I'm praying for you every day with me. If you could just read that in your room, that is a big deal. Maybe not to you, because in our world. Why are you writing me a letter? Just text me In their world. That's what they have. That's the biggest means of communication. That's their glimpse into the outside world. That's their only knowledge that someone actually still thinks about them. Who's not in this little box with them? And I think we've lost sight so many times because, again, we don't come in contact with the system.
Speaker 2:We don't understand how much of a difference we can make. We think all these little things we're doing are so unimportant. There are no unimportant things In this world. Again, as we go back to the initial principle, as I give up the mic, if you are truly seeking justice, loving mercy and walk humbly with God and being obedient which I think one of those things on the list, like I said it can be I just pray. It's not a little thing. You're doing what is required of you and that's not little. That's very hard To say.
Speaker 2:I'm going to commit to pray for the prison system once a week is not a little thing, because someone in prison needs you to pray for them, to just teach your skill. That you think is unimportant. I volunteer and I go once a month to teach someone some basic accounting To you. It's not a big deal, but it could change literally Again. Just think of a mother who's getting out of prison and now has a family to take care of. This is a big life skill that you have just given someone. So just take some time, think about it. And I know everyone is not going to go join the prison system. I don't expect you to join helping the prison system. I don't expect you to. I was going to take a couple questions, if you had any questions about getting involved in prison ministry and what that would look like.
