A Burden For The Times
A Burden For The Times
Faith and Voting: Are Christians Obligated to Vote?
Is voting a biblical duty for Christians, or simply a civic right? This episode poses that very question as we explore the nuanced intersection of faith and politics, especially in light of the election between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.
We then turn our attention to the scriptural arguments surrounding Christian participation in voting. Should Christians feel obligated to vote, or does scripture grant them the liberty to abstain? We dissect passages from Romans 13, First Timothy, and Matthew 5:13, exploring their implications on stewardship and submission to authority. The debate is anything but one-sided, as we entertain the notion that not voting might still align with Christian values when faced with the "lesser of two evils" dilemma.
Finally, we underscore the essential role of conscience in the voting process and the importance of community engagement. From school boards to city councils, the significance of voting extends beyond presidential candidates, urging Christians to stay involved at a local level.
Super challenging and we hope also super helpful.
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Hey and welcome to another episode of the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. If you haven't noticed, we are in an election season and with elections obviously comes the opportunity and the privilege to vote, so we're going to be investigating this concept. Is voting a responsibility that a Christian has to do or should do? Is it compulsory biblically that I must vote? There's a lot of opinions surrounding it and we want to unpack that during this episode that we have here together.
Speaker 1:And since politics are usually quite dicey and divisive, we want to start with something ultralight before we go into this aspect, and so I know that sometimes we ask a light question and usually if we ask a light question about food, we still end up having a debate. If we ask a light question about who likes this kind of car, and we still have a debate. So I think I'm going to ask a question that I don't think we're going to have any debate about, because it's supposed to be a light question before we get to the heavier questions, and that is this. All right, just on a normal day, percentage guys are you a shower because you enjoy it, kind of guy, or are you a shower because you like it? Some people just love taking showers. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:I think you said the same thing twice, you said enjoy it or like it.
Speaker 1:Like enjoy it, like, oh, I love it, it's my shower time, versus. Well, I need to go take a shower because I gotta get clean, like I know some people who take showers three times a day.
Speaker 2:Okay, like on the cd.
Speaker 1:So like, like, basically, or a bath person or whatever it is like you just enjoy. You look forward to, like that's your unwind time, to just go ahead, just let that water hit your face. See, this is something that's not divisive. See how I get to go to cleaving and bathing something that's not divisive for us to discuss. So, anyway, light question, aaron, starting with you is it something you have to do or something you just really enjoy doing?
Speaker 2:it's something that I do, so I guess I'm going to lean towards giving you an a or b answer. I'm going to say this is something I have to do.
Speaker 1:You have to keep yourself clean.
Speaker 2:I don't look at it quite that way, but I'm definitely not in the oh yes, I get to take a shower today.
Speaker 1:Oh no, dude, I don't know, anton, what about you?
Speaker 3:Hell yeah, I got to go with Aaron on this. I've never actually put that much thought into showering, I assume I don't find it that enjoyable.
Speaker 1:Nah, dude, when I was overseas and you just got those cold, or you went to Honduras with me, aaron, and you were under those cold showers and stuff like that. So when you now come back to the United States, you're not telling me that your first shower after getting back to the United States, you didn't hover in there just a little bit longer after the soap came off Come on.
Speaker 2:That was not the question, though that wasn't after I've been in a third world country. But like taking showers, then yes, yes, I'd be in the love showers category. But outside of that, when I have it every day, I just go take a shower.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you take it for granted. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2:once you put it that way, I probably do gotcha, gotcha.
Speaker 1:I, I do lean, I. It is a functional thing for me, um, but I just don't like. I don't like the cold, so I hate taking showers in the morning, um. So therefore, if I take in the evening time, I do enjoy it. I sing, I get myself going on stuff, but in the morning, when it's chilly, especially in in winter days, nah, I don't enjoy doing that stuff.
Speaker 2:But anyway, see, now you know a lot about us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was no debate, though. There was no debate in that one. That was the point, that was the point of it, but anyway. So, since politics are so divisive, therefore voting naturally is a direct link to that controversy. So we want to have a conversation from a Christian worldview Is it biblically compulsory that a Christian should vote, especially given the election that we are getting ready to at least in the recording of this podcast getting ready to go into between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump?
Speaker 1:It just seems that the last eight, 12 years of politics have just been. You know, politics have always been divisive, but it seems like it's been ultra divisive during these times. So we're going to jump into that question in just a moment, but before we do that, let's just talk about voting, because it's hard to really have the conversation with all the early voting stuff, voting stuff and all is this versus pre-COVID, when I see this story echoed out. Anton, is this just a lot of undue attention that's going to all these early voting and the fraud and different things? Or is there a story here or this is just talking heads, just continually chatting at them, chatting to each other?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I kind of lean towards it's just talking heads.
Speaker 3:There's really no evidence to suggest early voting or absentee voting is any less safe or secure than voting in person and on election day. So I do think a lot of it plays to the fact that something that is true about voting early voting and absentee voting is it does favor Democrats that you're going to get far more people who vote blue do tend to do early voting and absentee voting, and people who do, who are very staunchly conservative or Republican, do tend to vote in personal election day. But that's probably far more of a key component of age and generation, because obviously age has played a factor in who people vote for. Republicans tend to be older and they're going to be less likely to vote absentee. But that has again, it's not a stolen election or if you vote in the mail, you've somehow lost your vote and it will never count for anything. Somehow lost your vote and it will never count for anything. So, yeah, I do think it's far more plays better in media than it actually has a impact on, uh, the outcome of the election okay, aaron.
Speaker 1:Um, I don't know if you have anything else you want to add and I don't want to get into the weeds in this conversation of even trying to drop drum up all the stuff that took place during the 2020 election and counting these votes and I mean, I remember back, even being a kid. I mean, was it gore? And bush is that, when they had the recount and the joke was give me a recount and all this other stuff. So do you think anything of this when you watch news or hear different things?
Speaker 2:um, that about early voting numbers now versus pre-covid alarming of a story or not a thing it's not a thing to me, but I would say say I'm trying to tone down the election in general. So most of the time I probably am not going to be the representative of a great patriotic American in this conversation, because I would do my part and vote. But I'm not going to lie and say that I've watched all the coverage and hearing, all reading the articles and such. I would rather be outside taking pictures of flowers.
Speaker 1:So just calling it what it is.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. So we are not going to come for you for the authoritative answer of how to figure this whole situation out. Well, I want to look at that, but just in general, just because I know that when you say voting, some people might think that we're going in at that angle specifically. But here's where we want to get to the crux of the conversation. When you Google something, you can Google what is the best pizza, right, and then you're going to get so many opinions upon what those things are. And then if I were to type in I know this is being silly, but biblically what is the best pizza, I think you can get just as many with Bible verses backing up exactly what each person believes right.
Speaker 1:So when you answer, when you put in should a Christian vote, is it biblical, is it a responsibility for a Christian to vote, then you find that there are two schools of thought, completely different. Both of them are backed up by scripture. You know, through different means or different interpretations about this matter of should a Christian vote versus a person who says a Christian doesn't have to vote. So let's start with this one Arguments that say a Christian should absolutely vote. I know, at least in my social media, there's been a whole lot of people sharing these kind of posts. I'm just asking just out of curiosity, aaron, anton, have you seen these arguments that a Christian absolutely no question should absolutely vote? Have y'all seen this on your social media platforms or different interactions with people? Biblical reasons why.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, I have, I agree, yes.
Speaker 1:Let's just go through a couple of them real quick. You have any of those that come to mind that people say typically, because I'm going to basically not show my hand, because we're going to get to the end and say where do we stand on this. But I'm just saying what? What are the arguments that are made?
Speaker 2:I guess for me, one of the ones is that if you're, if you don't vote, you don't have a reason to be able to say anything or talk about anything because you didn't take the time to vote. And then also, if you don't vote, then you've let evil win if you choose not to vote, Okay, All right.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I didn't hear a Bible verse in that, but I don't know if there is a Bible verse for it.
Speaker 2:That's what the arguments were.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. Well, I'm going to read a couple. Anton, do you have any that you want to throw out?
Speaker 3:Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I'm just looking at different articles and I summed up the ones that I'm like. Okay, they're at the Bible verse. The Bible verse actually has something to do with what is going on. So Romans 13 was used that a Christian vote because it recognized submission to authority in the government, then gives the opportunity to vote First. Timothy was used to be able to show our involvement of caring for the good of the folks that are around us. Um, matthew 5, 13 was used as a stewardship principle of stewardship, stewarding our, um, our religious rights that we have. We see in Acts 14.23,.
Speaker 1:A biblical precedent was set in the early church that the early church Christians, they voted. Obviously this is as relates to church, the people that were leadership in the church, nothing to do with the government. Then I'm trying to think of another one. Oh, and then there's some reasons to how a person should vote and that's usually just a little bit different, but the aspect of should vote versus who you should vote for. Those are two different arguments, but that you should vote. Those are the ones that I kind of see kind of consistently, if you want to summarize it stewardship, biblical precedence and showing the care, involvement for others, just because I had seen a couple of the different things floating around and I copied them down on the passages. Anton, anything that you see.
Speaker 3:Oh no, those are usually the same and I figured you to already have them written down. Those are usually the same. I would say Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay. So arguments that a Christian can can vote, but they must, but they don't have to. It's not compulsory that a person should vote. The arguments that it's it's can vote but not a must, I think typically I'm just going to throw out the one that's most common used, um of saying that, hey, I can vote but I don't have to vote because they say the lesser of two evils. With that being said, I'm not going to choose one side or the other. Therefore, for those reasons, I do not have to vote in those regards. All right, any and y'all know any of those arguments that say Christian can vote but not a must.
Speaker 2:I do not, I do, I do not. But the hard part is like voting is such a Western thing, like it's just a hard one. They voted Well, not, this was every time that I was about to say it. Every time they cast lots. Is that a vote? Yeah?
Speaker 1:All right. Well, I mean I'm going to break it down just a little bit more then, because I mean some people are like, well, lesser of Two Evils argument is not a scriptural argument. I would say two things to this argument. You're going to start seeing my bias come out here just a little bit, but these two reasons why it's said to be biblical and believed to be biblical, because there's always a choosing of righteousness and a choosing of faith.
Speaker 1:Choosing of righteousness means, when you talk about the lesser of two evils, we're not supposed to be picking between, well, this is bad and this is badder. It's one of those things where I just choose that which is right, and choosing faith would be. This is that faith is often counter intuitive, and so if I truly believe the King's heart is in the hand of the Lord, and even though it seems that my action should produce this X result over here, and therefore by well, you're not casting a vote. So therefore you are doing even more harm than good. Well, that's you and logic coming to a conclusion, and it should be me and faith and righteousness coming to a conclusion on the other side.
Speaker 1:So that would be the reason why that stewardship principle that was used as an argument for voting is the same usage of stewardship, but just in a different way, one saying I'm stewarding my responsibility and the other one says I'm stewarding my faith. So I see how both sides are pretty much arguing and saying my side's biblical, this side's biblical. However, you're kind of looking at it that everyone's defining the terms how they desire to define them. All right, with those things being said, any thoughts upon what I just said? Anton Air?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:I concur Okay.
Speaker 1:So so well then, let's get to the meat of it real quick. All right, we took the time build the foundation. So where do you, aaron, stand on this matter of? Well, I guess it's just a should, a christian vote, and just leave it for you to fill in the blanks however you may according to the ones that you have.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be on the team of Christians can vote, but not a must Like I don't have to vote. I don't believe I have a biblical mandate to vote. Do I believe it's a good responsibility? Do I believe it's good stewardship? I believe I can say I believe both to be true, but do I believe it's like, if I don't vote, maybe you can go to the passage whatsoever Things without faith to sin. To him that knows to do good and do with it, not to him to sin. To him that knoweth to do good and doeth it, not to him that sin. So maybe you can get me from there, from those scripture. But I'm going to say I don't necessarily think it's a biblical mandate because again, that's such a Western thing, like for me. I'm not Western because other people vote, but I'm just saying it's us listening, living in the moment that we're living, in that we can grasp the principles from the word of God, but I don't know if there's a straight mandate for Christians to vote.
Speaker 1:OK, let me play devil's advocate just a little bit for you, number one. I can hear somebody scream at the radio and say Aaron, how can you say that people died for this right for you to vote? Think about your history, black history specifically. You have now had this opportunity. How can you say that you're not going to vote when you have been given this great opportunity and not use it? Can you speak to that?
Speaker 2:I didn't say I wasn't a voter, I just said it's not a mandate, like I don't think you can make. There's lots of things that people have died for. People have died for the having a copy of the word of god. But it doesn't mean that, like, everybody has a copy of the word of god so and maybe that's not a direct one-to-one, but I'm just saying there's a lot of things that, uh, people have given lives for. That I don't know if necessarily still makes it a mandate, if that makes sense okay that a christian must then vote.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm gonna give you a little bit more time to unpack that in just a minute. But, anton, where do you stand on this? Before we talk about who to vote and how that whole process winds out, where do you stand on this? Should a Christian vote? Leave it open to you.
Speaker 3:Yes, I do, I'm going to go the opposite way of Aaron. Yes, I do. I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that it wouldn't be a biblical mandate because, just like when you were talking, how you were arguing with yourself, when it's articulate that voting was either bad, had nothing to do with your Christian stewardship, was outside of your God-given responsibilities, unless you can articulate why that would be true, why would it be true that a Christian who lives in the United States and has the ability to vote and can vote against things that God deems as evil and chooses not to? How would that be out of the realm of his God-given responsibility? You'd have to be able to articulate why that is true, and I don't think you can, just because it would be either inconvenient or again, you say you can't vote for a good person. Like, of course you can. You don't have to even vote for the top two candidates. That would be a decision that you make.
Speaker 3:There's lots of people running for president. There are Christians running for president, so again, I don't know how you could be able to articulate it is outside of my God-given responsibility to do something that God's given me the right to do, but I just don't like it. I don't know how you would make that argument. This is going to be a good podcast here.
Speaker 1:I thought we were all going to agree and apparently we are not. With that being said, interesting, anton, interesting. I'm going to state where I am and then we're going to just discuss a little bit, anton, because then it just makes it clear instead of being where, Adrian, you didn't say exactly where you were. I do not believe for personally that is a compulsory thing that a Christian must vote. I do believe it is an amazing, rare opportunity that me, not only as a believer, but even as living in a republic where I can let my voice be heard to make decisions that can then shape the future of where my country goes and the direction it goes, is an absolute, god-ordained, absolute, amazing privilege that I have inside of the United States of America. I believe it. I'm not just saying it just to be able to get some brownie points before I make my secondary point. I do believe it, and I don't have words in the English language enough to express that it is a privilege to be able to do so. However, I do believe that there is a matter of conscience, and when you have a conscience that there are things that got, what did Paul, even the argument made in the book of Romans right this matter about eating meat and it's like look, if this is going to consider this to be eating meat, I'm not going to do this If this is offending to your conscience. See, typically when it comes to, let's take something else that I'm saying it offends my conscience to be able to do X, y, z. Let's fill in the blank for something that I know is real.
Speaker 1:For some people, in their conscience, they feel it wrong to attend a movie theater. I am not in that camp, but I know some good people. They're very good people and for whatever reason from the past, from tradition, whatever it is, it would be against their conscience to go to the movie theater. What we do is look at them and be like you know what, bro, that's okay, that's okay. You know you don't go to the movie theater, I do, but we can love each other and continue to walk together in fellowship.
Speaker 1:However, when it comes to voting, and I tell you that my conscience is offended by the candidates that are displayed, and I say it would offend my conscience and I talked about how it offended my conscience during the last episodes that we talked about with Trump and as we did, if I tell you, it offends my conscience for some reason, because it's tied to politics. People feel they need to change my mind. People feel they need to then say no, no, no. You don't understand Because why it's now affecting them and their liberties are, quote unquote, at stake because I'm not doing my responsibility.
Speaker 1:Either you're going to call me a liar and say that my conscience doesn't matter and say that you do not, you believe, and you believe in something so false and I'm, even though I don't have to prove it to you from scripture why this person doesn't go to the movie theater and why I do. I don't have to prove it to you, but I feel, with voting, that it's like in my conscience, it would have filled my conscience to vote for X, y individual. So therefore, I am not. I feel that many times now, it's brought into such scrutiny that it's like wait a second. I'm sitting here and I'm like okay, where do I stand on this? I'm not voting for either one of them. I'm not voting for either one of them. So, with that being said, that's where I stand. And to you, anton, I've kind of pushed it back to you because you're like how can a person not do that? Well, you said you had to have a reason. Is conscience not enough of a reason for me, then, to say I'm not going to vote?
Speaker 3:No, I'll tell you why. I don't disagree. We're having two different conversations. I think we've gone to that road. You're telling me why you can't vote for a particular candidate Understood, that doesn't mean you can't vote.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying to vote for anyone. I have not said that in any way. If it violates not saying to vote for anyone I have not said that in any way and if it violates your conscience to vote for the Republican candidate, the Democratic candidate, that's between you and God. It's got nothing to do with me. What I can say is not voting is a different articulation altogether, because you can go there and vote for a godly man, because I know multiple godly men who are on the ballot. They're not on the major parties, but that tells me you just don't want to vote because there are people who fit the criteria of what you're looking for, who are running for the office that you're seeking, and not only people. The only candidates are not presidential.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of people down ballot that are good, godly people who need to be on these school boards, need to be in our city commissioners that you need to vote for. So I'm not telling you who to vote for. I'm not telling you to violate your conscience. If you violate your conscience to vote for every position, you can't find one school board member who doesn't violate your conscience. I'm not buying that as actually true. I'm buying that, as I can't vote for Donald Trump or I can't vote for Kamala Harris, fair enough. But that does not excuse you from all of the things that you could help by actually being an actual member of society and giving into what I would consider God-given responsibility, because the people who are on the school board are your God-given responsibility, those students that you would affect. That is your responsibility and I don't know how you can just say every candidate on the ballot violates my conscience. I do not buy that.
Speaker 1:OK, I can see. I can see where you're coming from, Aaron. You want to speak to that at all.
Speaker 2:No, I agree with you. I think he's he's definitely right, because it even just challenges me. It's like man, I need to make sure I know those and look down the ballot and go down that way, and look down the ballot and go down that way. But I guess the big part for me is and maybe this is the philosophical part of them I don't honestly and this may sound terrible, but I honestly don't believe that my vote counts that much.
Speaker 1:Oh boy.
Speaker 2:Look, I'll call it what it is. I don't think I understand if everybody didn't do it right. It's kind of like when you go to the store and you make the manager man, you walk out and you're like, well, I'm not going to spend my 50 cents here anymore. And he's like, okay, and you walk out, like for me, that's what it feels like when you put in the vote. I'm not saying that it's not a valid, I'm not saying the vote doesn't matter in a whole. I'm saying I will vote. I voted for every time. But I'm just saying, when it comes down philosophically, I honestly don't believe the vote is doing what I believe the vote is said to do.
Speaker 3:I'm going to go ahead and disagree completely on this because one, if you think about, like our last presidential election, even again at the highest scope. So the presidential election, donald trump really only lost the votes and again, I'm not advocating or whatever, I'm just showing you the small portion of society it would take to change an election only really lost about 25 000 votes in pennsylvania and michigan. That swung the election completely. And if we even get to a smaller scale that's what I'm saying like school boards, no one's voting for school board like Like you're probably, which you are in Baltimore County, which is going to be a larger county, but if you're in a normal size county, those people are only probably going to win eight to 10,000 votes as a winner. Like you are a major portion of the bottom of the ballot. Now you can make the argument I'm in a very liberal location or I'm in a very conservative location and it's always going to go red or blue in a presidential election.
Speaker 3:But in local elections, at the mayor level or at the city council level, yeah, one vote can decide an election. Not many people vote down ballot. So one person is and not only is it important, I would say it's more important, because the people who are actually affecting your community are local politicians, far more than presidential, senate or House. It is those low school aldermen or just like we had the racist I can't even think of the guy but anyway, a guy who assessed the houses, who is assessing the black houses far lower. These are local elections. Only 800 people, because that was in I, obviously I live in mecklenburg county. Uh, albemarle county is right beside us and he's the guy who got arrested for that, for downgrading black people's houses. Only 700 people voted in that election for that guy. Yeah, you, a lot of people could have made a difference. That's not a lot of people. So I think, down ballot, yeah, that's where it matters.
Speaker 2:And I think, uh, yeah, one vote is important down ballot okay so I have a question on it and I'm, I'm I don't think I disagree with you at all. The question is how as and maybe I'm wrong here how do you, as a regular person, do you stay like that connected to all those things? I guess in in my mind? I'm not saying I guess if I knew all those things, yes, I would have the responsibilities to vote, but it's like what happens when you don't have the knowledge of all those things. And do you still have that risk? I know, I know you still have the responsibility.
Speaker 2:I guess I'm trying to say how can you keep track of all the things and live the regular life? That's the question for me. That I just keep asking myself is like to know the alderman. Like I don't even know. I know who the mayor of Baltimore is. If I saw him I'd give him a high five. I don't know all the, all the different things. Like again, it feels different to me. If I lived in what, uh, little washington, north carolina, like I, I'm like, okay, maybe I can get to know these folks. I see him at the diner. Like I don't even begin to know how to keep track of all those things other than just literally doing a google search and saying I'm a conservative christian, who should I vote for? So how do you figure that stuff out? Um, the lower, the down ballot.
Speaker 3:I would encourage most people and again, you can just go to city council meetings, like again, maybe just once a month, I don't go all the time. Um, we go down there, uh, sometimes to uh talk about schools and textbooks being used and things of that nature. But most of those low-level politicians are going to be there and you're going to have time to both speak with them one-on-one and see what they're all about, because they're probably going to have to speak to the crowd itself, which I think is probably the most informative thing. And a lot of these people, because they're down-ballot, are actually looking to connect and make relationships, because no one knows who their alderman is and he would be more than happy to sit down and tell you what he does, what his belief system is, because he's trying to get votes, because no one votes for alderman, he just wants to lose his job.
Speaker 3:So I'm saying for a lot of these down-ballot, it really is just go to find where they are, even like emailing or calling them, because, unlike national politicians, like I said, these guys don't have all those secretaries and red tape to get through. They're usually buried down to earth and most people who serve in those low-level positions. They don't make a lot of money. They're there because they actually want to help. Now again, we may disagree, but I would argue most low-level politicians are far more honest than high-level politicians, because they don't make a killing. They're not well-known, they're not in it for the success or the fame. They're in it because they wanted to help some people.
Speaker 1:And I do think Aaron's point and again, I think this is more just commiserate with me, more than I'm solving anything by saying this, but I understand that priority issue that sometimes comes about where you go to a conference and it's like you go to the soul winning conference. You need to be living the gospel every single day of your life. Boy, I'm a terrible soul winner. Let me go to the prayer conference.
Speaker 2:You'd be praying 24 hours a day. Why are you not praying?
Speaker 1:24 hours a day. Oh man, I need to get my prayer life. What kind of dad are you? You're not spending time with your kids, you know. And then what kind of husband are you? You don't go on dates every week. And then you go to the civic thing and it's like I can't do everything. You know, like like you know what I mean. Like you, the one thing you're doing awesome at one thing, and then you turn around and try to do something else and then that falls to the cracks. And so I do see what Aaron is saying in that regard and you know what I quote Bill Rice on this one he got to give you a Bible and a brain, the Holy spirit, you know that's something to figure out, because that's a tough one, because that's you know, to how to prioritize those aspects.
Speaker 1:But it is a responsibility and that is something and I would be with you and Anton on that, because I don't believe it is right, concerning my point that I have made, that you know, to not vote at all. You know, I guess, to sit out on every vote, everything that requires a checkmark. My checkmark is required for me to love Jesus. I don't love Jesus If I go through this election. Some have said that if I go through this election and I do not check that president or vice president for those two major parties, because some people go so far to say if you're not voting for red or blue team, then therefore you're missing your vote anyway. So what's the point? So all I'm saying is it's like if there's not a magical check for those two, then I'm somehow sinning that to me. I'm just not of that category. But yes, as it relates to um going through and go, going down, and not every single person is going to sit here and you know, jive, you can't say all of them are offending your conscience. So I think it's a good point, some of those reasons. So let me just read this real quick, because I know some of you that are really much against what I just said about the red team and the blue team and not voting for which one. And how do you discern which one to vote for this article or this post? You know, people copy and repost something a zillion times and then it says recopy from whatever source. And this is the one.
Speaker 1:That was the biblical response that most people, while they're voting, they put their little sticker and they say this I will vote for the most pro-biblical view, I will vote for the and 1 Timothy is quoted. I will vote for the one. Who's most pro-great commission, most pro-life, most pro-work, most pro-marriage, most pro-steward minded, most pro-Israel. And you know all these good principles that I looked at and I'm like I don't disagree, you know, with these principles. I just feel that these principles, as you are seeing, do not need to supersede the conscious level to what the Lord has given. I do think because obviously it makes sense that, hey, adrian, coming from a Christian worldview, I'm not going to sit here and pretend that the Republican Party does not have more of a Christian worldview as it relates to life, as it relates to different things economy, and I do believe that is the case.
Speaker 1:But as something I've quoted in the past, you know about a clock. You know concerning the Trump, if you're like Adrian, why can't you then feel you can write conscious vote? I am just about a clock, and a clock that's off by an hour versus a clock that's off by 23 minutes. It's more confusing when you're off by 23 minutes than an hour, meaning like you love Jesus and then love Jesus if you don't. Just don't pretend right. Like dude, you're selling shoes, you're selling cologne, you're selling Bibles, you're selling boots. You know what I mean. Like don't put Jesus in it. You know what I mean Sell your cologne, sell what you're going to sell. Like let's just not pretend to market. And it just seems like Jesus has become more of a sales pitch than anything else. Anyway, I just want to make sure that point was clear, because it's like where's the conscience issue of not doing it? My conscience issue does lie in that area specifically.
Speaker 3:I just want to be clear. I co-signed that 100%. That is not what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I think we're talking about everything.
Speaker 3:If someone looks at me and says I can't vote for Donald Trump in good conscience. A God bless you. I understand, like if someone says I can't vote for Kamala Harris, a I'm not mad at you at all.
Speaker 3:Gotcha Understood. It's when you stuck in. When people start saying I can't vote, see, to me that's like I said. We're into a different game of. I don't actually believe that to be the case. That, to me, just says I'm too lazy to look for alternative options. I looked at the top two and was like nah, and then I just went home.
Speaker 1:To me that's a different thing altogether which, hey, I long for the day when media will actually start highlighting a little bit more of these. You know, because sometimes, like they're always looking for something to talk about, right, and it's like to highlight a lot of these down ballot issues and people would be helpful, instead of it really coming down to we need one man, we need one woman to save us, or whatever it is. So, anyhow, did we leave any stone unturned as it relates to that argument and stuff? I just want to make sure, do you think we answer the question? Will people walk away and say, hey, you really didn't address this?
Speaker 2:Is there anything that y'all can think of as it to? Should a christian vote? Should a christian not vote? In those regards? Nope, I have been challenged and I don't know if it's oh sorry. Oh, I'm just saying I've been challenged to think through this a little deeper than I have. Anton did a great job of taking me down a couple like when I say not just, not like probably, but I'm take a double notches down as far as just thinking about the election as the big pieces, and actually I will say I have been challenged School.
Speaker 1:Anton, what about you?
Speaker 3:I don't know if it's a stone unturned, but I do. And again, if someone has one, I generally don't understand and I mean it sincerely People who say that Christians don't have more responsibility to vote. It confuses me. I haven't heard a good argument. If you have one, please you can leave it in the comments. I am actually curious because I don't know how it's avoidable that, like I said, how you can get away from it being a God-given responsibility, Even if, like I said, if you write your pastor's name in and just pray that he wins. I don't want to do that. I understand that argument more than I understand the I just I I'm not gonna do it. That, that argument I just I've never understood that it makes sense, that makes sense the hardest part.
Speaker 2:I guess I understand how not knowing. But I go back to like I just looked up um this site because I was recommended to go to the site, so right and it's. I'm gonna read it to you. Which issues would you like to know? The candidate's position on? Abortion, contraception, arts and culture, civil rights, criminal justice, defensive veterans, drug policy, economy, education, environment, energy. I haven't read them all yet and I'm already confused right now.
Speaker 2:I was like how do I know all these people stand on foreign policy? What happens if I vote for this, this person? And they have a great thing on this, but they're terrible on something else guns, health care, housing, immigration, infrastructure and transportation, social service, tax, the budget. I'm like I guess that's the part where I'm not saying that it's not a god-given responsibility. I'm saying at some point it's super complicated and I'm just trying to think through to lower down the level of um.
Speaker 2:As I tell chat gbt, tell it to me like I was in third grade, because I just need to know what, and I maybe it's because I'm lazy or maybe whatever, but it's like there's so many things and, like adrian said, it just feels like all of a sudden it's like okay, I'm looking at these specific issues. But then what happens if I vote for this issue and I'm jacking something up on the other side? So I'm like doing this but I'm messing up the green spaces which I am for, especially since I live in Baltimore, and it's like, well, now I just jacked myself up because I voted for this person who hates this kind of stuff. So that's, it's where, that's where the complicated and again, as Adrian would say, probably it's just me commiserating and complaining and not knowing, but I'm just trying to figure out all that stuff.
Speaker 1:And I will take one stab at the commiserating portion of it and I would say that I do believe in biblical community.
Speaker 1:I believe that God places people in your path, in your church, that enjoy this kind of thing, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:No, this is not just an ordinary person, this is somebody that you have come into biblical community with, whether it's through the church, in terms of the church, in terms of the family. We know these are two God-ordained things and God brings people that are in those two God-ordained areas and therefore, if they can speak into or have wisdom of, I have no problem going to my community group, to a guy who loves Jesus, who knows way more about this, and I come and say, dude, who should I vote for for this mayor? I don't know. So I do say at least to the commiserating phase. It's not like I have to know, I got to know everything and how his green energy plan versus his economic policies and foreign aid. I might not be able to know it, but I do believe that biblical community can aid, not necessarily make decisions for you, but aid in this, in this area, if there is a little bit of hope for this commiserating, that demiserating that we were doing here together.
Speaker 3:Well, yes, anton oh, I thought we're at tips and tools tip tools, absolutely tip tools.
Speaker 3:Let's close this thing up I was gonna say the thing about aaron. Um, I really do think it's important for people to go to city council meetings and I think it's also important, especially for younger people um, teenagers and such to be aware of what these jobs do, because I think that's also part of the problem, because I I see people reading like you know what your um tax assessor is going to be doing and it's like his foreign policy will never matter. He assesses houses. Or a guy who, because the job title does matter to what the person is, it's like you're voting for a guy who is we brought up plumbers the one time we were talking about presidents but you're voting for a guy that will never have the impact because his job title, his foreign policy, would never matter. If you have a person who's going to be a judge, their stance on abortion 100%, completely relevant. If you have a tax assessor, his stance on abortion will never matter to you, will never matter to you. So again, to me it's like, when people look at these documents, it's like the one guy who's a brilliant tax lawyer that is pro-choice, we wouldn't vote for him, but we'll vote for a farmer who knows nothing about taxing. That is pro-life. It doesn't make any sense, it doesn't matter Again, it will never, ever reflect. So again, I'm not saying that everyone's going to agree with you on every issue, and if you're again, this is a conscious issue. That's something completely different.
Speaker 3:But to me, it's one of the things that I always find so silly, and it's why I encourage people to actually go down to city council, because what does Councilman so-and-so do? So-and-so is in charge of the third war here in charlotte and that's a very crime-ridden uh. His policy on criminal justice reform is most important, but it's like he has bad foreign policy experience. Who cares? He works in ward three. He will never vote on any foreign thing. That will ever happen. It will never matter. But to me you have a lot of christians who are voting from those pamphlets and not based on hey. It also would be very important to know what does this job title do? What would he be doing day to day? His policies that are not reflected in his position. We can discard those and focus on the ones that are relevant to his position.
Speaker 1:Makes sense, makes sense. I guess my tip was wrapped up in this matter of biblical community. Aaron, any tip tools?
Speaker 2:Nope, other than listen to more of anton. That's my tip, because that is actually like what's. I'm like I need just just need a whole podcast on just explaining. I still don't want to go to a city council meeting, honestly, on my current but uh, but I am challenged by it, just to be honest, I like listening to it. It's like like, hmm, there is.
Speaker 2:Because I do know this on a small level, because I remember even when we were in Flushing and I remember going to the one conference and they were talking about how, if you bring, like Anton said, about how the lower level people, they're just trying to make a difference and trying to help. And I do remember this in Flushing because when we went to the centers there I can't remember the name of the place but you go and say, hey, our church will bring 10 volunteers to this community event and those people are like, thank you, thank you so much. You can make a huge difference in the community. So I do understand that on a level. But then just Anton, reintroducing it in this concept is like, okay, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2:I mean, I know like right now I live in Baltimore County, so it's harder to be. It was easy for me to be the best photographer or not best I shouldn't say best, a great photographer in Flushing, because there's only like 10 or 15 of them. It's a whole different thing to be a photographer in Baltimore County, where there's one on every other doorstep here and so. But it's just trying to think through how to make your things, your community, smaller to be able to make an impact. And so I have been challenged, have been challenged.
Speaker 1:I think we all can say that answer a big question and maybe a person still has questions and stuff about this or whatever. And yeah, as always, I invite. I mean, we invite the questions on either platform of Facebook or Instagram, or you want to jump on to send us an email at burnforthetimes at gmailcom. Obviously, this is a very touchy issue because we're sitting close to an election and I know that some might be vehemently disagree, but I would hope that especially those who possess a Christian worldview and possess the gospel has changed your life. That you know. Maybe it not be the way that you see it, but I do believe that, as a brother and sister in Christ, that we continue to be able to see each other and love each other as well, as we kind of grow. We grow in the Lord Jesus Christ and learning more and more every day. So I believe the conversation truly has been helpful for us to be able to think through and discuss. So, with that being said, we've went all down all around. Are all hearts and minds clear?
Speaker 3:Yes, sir.
Speaker 1:Mine is All right, hey. Well, thank you so much for joining us for this episode and we look forward to you joining us next time.
