A Burden For The Times
A Burden For The Times
ADHD Uncovered: Navigating Misconceptions and Understanding with Andrea Dyksterhouse
Andrea Dyksterhouse is a fun personality with a background in psychology and family ministry joins us for an insightful conversation around ADHD.
We navigate through the skepticism that often surrounds ADHD, especially within Christian communities, and challenge some of the common misconceptions. The conversation delves into the complexities of diagnosing ADHD in both children and adults. Andrea shares personal stories that illustrate the positive impact of proper diagnosis and treatment, while we examine how a spiritual perspective might influence the ADHD experience.
Andrea's insights provide a powerful reminder that symptoms are explanations, not excuses, encouraging a compassionate approach to those navigating ADHD.
Andrea's Tips and Tools are HERE.
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Hey and welcome to another episode of the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. We have one of those few rare occasions where we have guests come onto the podcast. I enjoy it tremendously. And so I am joined today with Andrea Dykstra-House. Now, when you hear Andrea her name you're sometimes thinking wait a second, isn't that Anton's wife, andrea? No, this is not Andrea. That Anton and Andrea. This is a totally different Andrea. But I have asked her to talk about a super interesting and something I am personally interested in as well, about ADHD, if you already saw the title. So, first off, hey, welcome to the podcast, andrea. Thank you, it is an absolute honor for you to be able to be here with us. So I know many of you do not know In fact, my brothers don't even know you. So if you just gave me a little quick synopsis, a little bio, who is Andrea Dykstra House?
Andrea:Okay, so I am a military brat. My dad was in the Navy for 35 years, so that's kind of the world I grew up in. I was homeschooled from fourth grade all the way through high school. I have a bachelor's degree in psychology from Old Dominion University. My master's degree is in children and family ministry from Bethel University in St Paul, minnesota. I'm the oldest of seven kids. There's a lot of us in my family, but we have four. I have four like there's four bio kids, so I have three sisters and then we have adopted three siblings through foster care. So my world's a lot of fun.
Adrian:That is. That seems to be pretty busy at what you've got going on over there.
Andrea:It is.
Adrian:Well, psychology and all those things. We're going to unpack that in just a moment, but before we do that, though, when you were talking about and going through your description now the audience can't see it, but I can see her sweatshirt and it says reading is rad. So that is so cool. So I kindred spirits in the fact of a reader inside the house. Now my brothers, they're more the readers, but you know, I know you have a passion for that and we'll be talking about that in a little bit, but I just thought that, even though no one sees that, that needed some air time. Reading is red. That's a cool sweatshirt. So here's what we do, andrea.
Adrian:Typically, we start off with a light question before we get to the heavy stuff. Obviously adhd, we're going to get and talk about that stuff. So we start with something light, just so they can get to know you. So I thought of something light, and then we're out as it pertains to travel. So if you had a spot in the world, what is your bucket list spot that you would just love to travel with? Travel to in the world.
Andrea:Oh, that is hard because I have gotten to travel to so many places that traveling more is on my list, but I do have a bucket list trip.
Adrian:Oh, okay.
Andrea:Yeah, I want to take the train from the East coast to the West coast and then drive route 66 from the West coast back to the East coast.
Adrian:That is unique. You want to. You want to experience everything along the path. Man, talk about getting so much bang for your buck. I would have said Bora Bora or something like that, and you're like no, you want to enjoy the journey, yeah.
Andrea:I love that. I want the journey to be the trip.
Adrian:Huh, that is super interesting. Wow, already, even though she's younger than me, you can already tell the maturity is so much higher than what I would normally have. But anyway, so let me tell you the premise of the discussion, what we're looking at. All right, so ADHD today has so many connotations associated with it. So what I want to do is I know Andrea from ICM, the global church developer, where she works, and what I wanted to do is say hey, you're a reader, you're a student of psychology. Obviously, your degrees would show that, but you also come with a Christian worldview. Me and Andrea have had conversations at different times and so I thought you know how she thinks to this topic, I think would be super helpful for our audience. So, with that being said, you have a psychology degree. How did you get interested in psychology and all that kind of stuff?
Andrea:So actually the reason I chose psychology out of all of the majors is I was really interested in learning about why people think the way that they think. I wanted to know why, if we're presented with the same information, I could make one decision and the person next to me could make a completely different decision.
Adrian:Interesting.
Andrea:So, like why are we thinking differently? Why are our personalities different? Like, how does trauma influence that? Like, how do our family experience influence that? Like. So I really wanted to know, like, why are people thinking the way they think? How are they thinking? Which spoiler alert relates to ADHD?
Adrian:Absolutely Well. The reason that we're having this conversation again is because I was very intrigued of you doing a talk about the Enneagram and you were going through and describing some different things in a training session and, as you were describing it, does that play a huge part too in your study? The Enneagram and stuff personality tests like that, yep, okay, now I know I'm just getting the biased interest of seeing all those other personality tests and stuff, but this has already been an interest to you for how long? Since the kid you just know people watching. Is that where it comes from?
Andrea:I kind of blame my parents, because my parents were very much into like the five love languages.
Andrea:Oh, okay, and so by the time, like when I was 10, I think my parents had us all take the assessment, and so at that point I had two younger sisters and so we all had to take this so that they could figure out, like, how do we each receive love? And that kind of like kickstarted it, because I was like, oh, I experienced love very differently than my sisters do. Interesting, and I receive love and I give love differently, and if that's like love is just one aspect of who we are, and so it just kind of like grew into that. And so then I learned about spiritual gifts and how, like God's given all of us different gifts and different, like different talents, and if God's given us different gifts and talents and we receive love differently, we also have different personalities. And so it just kind of like continued to grow.
Andrea:And honestly, the quickest way to my heart is to send me any sort of assessment and I am like, please tell me more. Like it is wildly intriguing to me how, like I can tell you my Hogwarts house, I can tell you my like disc assessment, I can tell you my five top five strengths from the strength finders, I can tell you my Enneagram, I can tell you my Myers-Briggs Like, because I think the more we know about ourselves in a way, the more we know about God in a way, the more we know about God.
Adrian:Ooh, I appreciate that Christian worldview for us to understand, because that does link back to have that understanding of ourself and how we then relate to the Lord and wow. So, with that being said, a lot could be unpacked there. Especially we talk about the Hogwarts thing. I know that we have fans Harry Potter fans, up with that that are here. So, with that being said, but let's talk though obviously you have so much you bring to the table that we could talk about, but I need you know we're going to do the best we can to kind of take this ADHD and even taking that.
Adrian:That's a huge topic and as we think about this huge topic, can you just define because I mean, before we start unpacking something, there's already assumptions that are being made and you know, obviously assumptions kill and details matter. But with that being said, what form? How would you define it, just so that we can at least frame our discussion that we're getting ready to have?
Andrea:Yeah, I think that is a really interesting question and I actually kind of want to start by flipping it back to you.
Adrian:Oh boy Okay.
Andrea:Because I have the technical definition in front of me. So, like from like the DSM-5, I know what ADHD is. But like what do you think ADHD is?
Adrian:That's great Cause this gives them just, you know, a broad, mildly studied person upon this Attention deficit hyper disorder. I think I know that's the-.
Andrea:Hyperactivity Hyperactivity.
Adrian:Okay, and I know that there's a difference between, like one person, this is the ADHD is the highest and there's one that's below it where, okay, my definition is a um, a person who struggles to focus in on one specific thing but has so many other things going on in their head at the same time.
Andrea:My terrible, uh, just off-the-cuff definition no, that's like okay, that's a great place to start, because I think that's the definition a lot of people have okay um. People assume adhd is just like the little kid in class who can't sit still um. But what we're discovering is adhd is so much more than that. Um so, just as a reminder, I am not a medical doctor.
Adrian:Yeah, I appreciate it. I appreciate the disclaimer. It's very, very important.
Andrea:So, like everything that I know, is based on my own research experiences of those around me, everything like that. So what I, what we talk about, is based on kind of the research that me and my family have done, because none of us have degrees in this. But according to the America Psychological Institute or it's not Institute, what is it? The APA?
Andrea:OK, adhd is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. So ADHD is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. So it's a neurodevelopmental disorder where patients present inattention, hyperactivity and impulsivity Predominantly. There are three types of ADHD. So you're going to have your inattentive ADHD, which is when someone has challenges staying on task, focusing, struggles with organization. They're not going to be people who pay close attention to the details. They may struggle with follow through or having a hard time prioritizing things. You also have your predominantly hyperactive ADHD, so that's going to be excessive movement, like fidgeting, lots of energy, not being able to sit still being talkative, impulsive impulsive in their decisions or in their actions, things like that. And then the third type of ADHD is your combined ADHD, which is exactly what it sounds like. So it's a little bit of both. It is both hyperactive and inattentive.
Adrian:Okay, this is fascinating already as we're getting out the gate. So this, this breaking this down into inattentive and then also hyperactive. So typically would you say that culturally, we always think of ADHD as hyperactive, that this is a kid that's always running around, had too much Kool-Aid, whatever it is Okay. But also this aspect of inattentive. Can this be seen in what we would call a docile child Like just? But they could be space cadet, but they are not jump bouncing off the walls. Is that also a reality?
Andrea:Yeah, so that could even be like the kid who their body is still, but their mind isn't.
Adrian:Gotcha. Sorry, I'm taking that note down. Their body is still, but their mind is not Now. With that being said, you said impulsivity, so that means in their decision process and stuff like that. When you say impulsive, I'm thinking of foolish decisions like you ate all that, you did all that Is that kind of the things. Or you just like you took a dare, or help me out with that.
Andrea:Yeah, so I think it can be, but one of the strengths of ADHD is actually that people with ADHD are very intuitive. The strengths of ADHD is actually that people with ADHD are very intuitive, so sometimes they just trust their gut and they make that decision based on, like their, what they think is right Because their minds a lot of times like minds are moving so quickly. People with ADHD may be able to make connections quicker than the people around them and so they are quicker to make the decisions because their brain has processed through all of the potentials and it's like, oh, I have all of this information, the answer is obvious, and so they just make the decision and everyone else is still like on step one and they're already on step 20.
Adrian:Wow, I have so many thoughts before you're even discussing and getting to the discussion. But let's go to the discussion and maybe at the end I'll be able to take some of those thoughts and be like you might address this a little bit more. So, first off, I do think it fair. The audience that is here for Birth of the Times just so you know, andrea and I say this publicly a lot of come from ministry backgrounds, ministerial faithful laymen, people that are, I would say, in some way, have definite a Christian worldview. Right, and I would say, at least in my upbringing, in my faith tradition, many people are very skeptical of this. You know, kind of I had heard comments from the pulpit made of like there's no such thing as ADHD, just give them a spanking and they'll beat it out of them, or you know, or a lot of different things. I won't go through the litany of things that have been said.
Adrian:Now let's frame our discussion in this way. Let's first start with the skeptics. If you had to convince someone of the legitimacy of ADHD, what arguments would you begin with? Or would you just say you know what? There's just there are people, there's going to be people, and so I'm not even going to try to convince them. What posture would you take?
Andrea:I think, and we kind of have talked about this like about different things, but when it comes to ADHD and skeptics, there is not much. They question. I have also not questioned.
Adrian:Interesting.
Andrea:Whether it's questioning about like my own experience. Whether it's questioning about like my own experience, whether it's questioning about um other people's experience, like it's. They don't ask questions I haven't already asked Um but at the same time, to me that is similar to someone saying like oh, anxiety is not real. Just because someone like you haven't experienced it, doesn't mean it's not a very real experience for someone else.
Adrian:Wow. So, and I think you nailed a good one with anxiety. What a great comparison, because I would say that, pre-covid, there's a lot of people who would have said hall wash, until they're the ones having panic attacks and wondering if there's some type of medication to stop my brain from moving and I can't sleep. So, okay, that is interesting, because sometimes, some people are just going to be experiential. They're not going to believe it until it happens to them or it happens to someone they love. So let's think okay, so we started this, got this, so let's think a little bit broader now. In our society, though, do you think that the response that we have had are we overly attentive to this, or do you think we're not very attentive to the effects and what's taking place in ADHD that is happening to people?
Andrea:Yeah. So I actually recently read an article that said ADHD is now considered an epidemic oh, wow. So I think what we're seeing is a massive wave of people realizing that what they thought was normal and normal ways of thinking actually has a name, and so it's. It could be like oh, I saw this TikTok and now I have ADHD, because I do two of those things. But I think also what we're seeing is people who have genuinely struggled for years and thought they were just bad or dumb now have a name for what they're going through, and so I think, while sometimes it can be a struggle or problematic, it's also very freeing.
Adrian:That is huge Because, basically, in that one statement you made, I mean, if we had a clip for the episode right there, what we thought was normal has a name Like it really does, so okay. So, with that being said, do you know anybody personally, or have you seen individuals that you in your immediate community, that would then, you know, have ADHD?
Andrea:Yes, okay, there's a lot of us you say us Okay.
Adrian:So you would you say then that Andrea ADHD would be part of your reality, Okay?
Andrea:Um, so I was going to put that in the bio, like in the bio section. I was like, no, we will save that.
Andrea:Okay, that is something I will unwrap later, um, but I think for me there is a very distinct moment where I remember realizing like, oh, I have made. I have felt like I was dumb my whole life. I have thought that, like, all of these things that were easy for other people was just because I didn't have discipline or I wasn't a good human, only to find out that it's just ADHD. And so for me, once I learned that ADHD was what was happening, then I was able to like, figure it out and I was able to put tools in place. So now I it is.
Andrea:Some things are easier for me than they were three, four, 10 years ago, and so it's also kind of fun to recognize that a lot of people think ADHD is genetic. So there are like some genetic links in ADHD. So in my family, at least three of my sisters have ADHD, my two brothers have ADHD, my dad has like ADHD like, and the more you realize who like once, the more you recognize the symptoms, the more you're able to be like. Oh, turns out like my whole family is just weird. But also the cool thing about ADHD and neurodiversity is, if you find one, you kind of find them all, because they tend to flock together. So a funny thing for me is like the better I get along with someone, the more likely I am to be like hey, do you have ADHD?
Adrian:Interesting.
Andrea:And so like it's just, it's just really cool.
Adrian:With that being said, so because your family has it. Tell me how you feel about this word that you suffer from ADHD, Like is that? Should I posture my vocabulary differently, Because I don't want vernacular to be something that would be offensive, but is that a good way to frame it? Suffer, I don't want to call it an illness, but how do you frame it?
Andrea:So I just tend to say that I have ADHD. My sister actually tends to say that ADHD is only considered a disability in the U? S because it doesn't fit our culture.
Adrian:Oh, is she available for the next episode?
Andrea:My sister is brilliant. I, I love her. She's actually. The reason I know so much about ADHD is because I was. She is an occupational therapy assistant, wow. So she's got kind of like more of that medical background and so she's just continuing to study occupational therapy and as she was doing her schooling, she was like realizing that, oh, I actually have a lot of these symptoms. And so, like talked to like different people and they were like, oh, you probably just have ADHD. So she went through and she has ADHD, and so she was talking about her experience and I would talk about my experience and they often were similar, wow. And so, yeah, it's just really interesting how I think we've lived in a world where ADHD was in one box and it turns out like ADHD is a whole lot more.
Adrian:Well, that was a. I appreciate the quotes that we've had going through, but now, with that being said, you know as we, so we started off kind of give everybody just an outline of where we are just to catch up, because you've said so many good things and I just want to make sure review. But you know, we looked at what society thinks of it and how have we seen this then play out in our own lives. And so, with that being said, that means there's a lot of ADHD years that are out here in our world today. And with that that being said, then what then is how you think it's affecting our current culture? Do you because it's not the norm and I guess you know in our society still says that that's kind of strange or whatever it is? Then do you think it's having an effect of how we even think about? You know life you kind of alluded to it by your sister's quote, but do you have any other thoughts there?
Andrea:So I think that's an interesting question. I think a more interesting question is how is our culture affecting people with ADHD?
Adrian:Wow.
Andrea:But like to kind of answer your question. I am, like I mentioned earlier. I'm so grateful that we live in a world where we can name ADHD for what it is. I think that for a long time, people really struggled in silence and thought that what they were experiencing was normal, um, but in reality there is a name for it and I kind of think of it as when I discovered that what I had been feeling was depression. This is, this thing is big and this thing is scary and this thing doesn't feel like me. And then I was sitting in a class, going like in a psychology class, and they were like oh, like these are the symptoms of depression, these are the symptoms of anxiety. And I was like, oh, this has a name, wow. And like, once we're able to name something, we're able to handle something.
Adrian:Absolutely Now. And that's half the battle, because I think even with our podcast on culture and race, one of the things was when I was experiencing racism and it was just like I'm not crazy you know what I mean Like what's happening should not be happening, or, for you, what I'm feeling. There is other people that are in my community that are feeling this as well, and then you can start finding resources to be of help. So let's go a little out of order. Then let's just say let's play not, I guess, call it a game, but just a thought process of how we can then help people that are like sitting there just like me and saying do?
Adrian:I have ADHD, Especially as you're relating to the inattentive. I mean, I am an active person as far as I have the gift of gab. But the thing about when you're talking about impulsivity, because to take all the options boom in 13 seconds and be like I have a decision that's totally me right. So, with that being said, you might have ADHD if you okay. So if you had, what would be some of those things that you might have ADHD? They're a podcast listener for these reasons.
Andrea:So I kind of think, Jeff Foxworthy, who does? You might be a redneck if.
Adrian:Okay, yes, yes.
Andrea:You might have ADHD if you find yourself interrupting others while they talk, because you have to share your thoughts.
Adrian:Oh boy, oh boy.
Andrea:You might have ADHD if you can zone out on something and completely lose track of time, causing you to forget to eat, to use the bathroom, et cetera. Oh boy, you might have ADHD if you find it easier to focus on someone speaking while your hands and body are moving.
Adrian:I'll put my pen down now.
Andrea:You might have ADHD if you get super into something a book, a movie, a hobby, a meal for a period of time and then wake up one day and absolutely want nothing to do with it. Wow, and then one more. You might have ADHD if you lose your phone or keys and search the whole house for them, only to discover they were right in front of you the whole time.
Adrian:Wow. So I don't know what you scored on that test, but I tell you what, when you were talking about fiddling with things, like, actually I find it helpful to have something in my hand or working on a mindless task while I'm doing something. It's really helpful. So I'm looking at we are doing this podcast live and I can. As Andrea's looking at me she's like he has it, don't know it.
Adrian:You said it, not me All right Childhood, adhd, common signs and then adulthood. It's going to show itself different right In different age groups. So unpack childhood for me just a little bit.
Andrea:So I think what we are realizing and this is just an interesting to me it's a shocking statistic. The average age of diagnosis for males is four. The average diagnosis age for females is 35.
Adrian:Okay.
Andrea:And so that to me is just a wild, that's a wild difference.
Adrian:That's so interesting.
Andrea:And I think it has to do with what we like, what we as a culture perceive as ADHD. We as a culture perceive as ADHD, and so for a long time people thought you outgrew ADHD because they thought it was an attention disorder. It's literally in the name. But what we're discovering through research and we not me, because I am not actively doing the research, I'm just researching the research but what people are learning is ADHD isn't just ooh, you can't focus. Adhd is actually. There is an issue with the way your body processes and transmits dopamine.
Adrian:I see.
Andrea:And dopamine influences a lot of aspects of your body. So dopamine is one of the four happy hormones that our body's produced. So you have dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin and endorphins, and dopamine is the one that gives us the satisfaction of a job well done. It's that reward center. But also what people are realizing is it impacts so much more in your body, and so ADHD in kids looks like oh, we can't focus, we can't do X, y, z. But as you get older, people are being diagnosed with ADHD because they have hypermobility, so their joints move like differently. It could look like depression and anxiety. For women, if you have PCOS, you may also have ADHD, and so what people are realizing and that's why there's such a disparity in that is, you are typically diagnosed because of the symptoms that you're showing or the Wow, well, as you're going through that, disparity in age is just yes, that is a cult.
Andrea:Yeah, that's just a cultural norm.
Adrian:Boys are hyperactive, so therefore, and girls are just kind of calmer, and so therefore, if she's not focusing, then there's another alternate explanation, or whatever it is.
Andrea:And it's important to note that people who are neurodiverse whether that means they have ADHD or they have autism or anything else People who are neurodiverse whether that means they have ADHD or they have autism or anything else, especially for girls they learn how to mask, and so masking is exactly what it sounds like. It's this process of putting on a persona that is culturally acceptable, and so, for girls, they learn how to sit still and how to work in a world where they are not perceived as an issue, and so, yeah, it's a whole lot of things.
Adrian:And hence that goes back to the statement that was made earlier about the question that you reformed to me is how is our culture affecting the people with ADHD is more of the big question, which you could say, and substitute anxiety into that as well. How does our culture treat them? Are you shaming those with anxiety or are they resourcing those with anxiety? Now, that section specifically very fascinating of understanding the childhood and adult signs and stuff we're going to get to books and resources here in a little bit, but I'm already trying to jump the gun already with that.
Adrian:But after you've done the research and you've been weighing out all these different variables about ADHD, how do you feel about the method of diagnosing ADHD and similar conditions? Because anything that comes to the matter of the brain obviously is, it's going to have this level of subjectivity, and maybe I'm wrong upon that, but that's just regular Adrian, just looking at how things are done, because you're saying a lot of questions that resonate with a person like me, right? So you are literally taking my hand and walking me through the philosophical realities of. Okay, this would change my thinking if I then accepted this premise, right? So how do you feel about how it's diagnosed?
Andrea:and just speak to the ADHD and other similar conditions diagnosis so what I have noticed is I don't have many friends who have actually been diagnosed with ADHD.
Adrian:Okay.
Andrea:It's a big process to get the actual medical diagnosis, especially as an adult, and so a lot of people just don't pursue a medical diagnosis.
Adrian:Is there a reason specifically, or just adulthood is just a little bit harder to be seen?
Andrea:For one, because for a long time we didn't believe, well, they didn't believe that it lasted into adulthood, um, so I think that plays a part in it, because it was like, oh, you'll grow up and you'll mature out of this, um, but that's not the case, um, I think also it's harder to pay attention to your symptoms when you've had them your whole life. And so if I go into a doctor's office and he's like, well, what are your symptoms of ADHD, it's harder for me to distinguish between what might be normal for someone without ADHD and what is normal for me, because for me, my whole life is symptoms, because I've lived with this my whole life, so I don't know any different. And so being diagnosed, especially as an adult, is just generally harder.
Adrian:You said a big phrase right there. You have all these zingers that I'm trying to write down, but how do you pay attention to symptoms that you have had your whole life? You don't know what. You don't know? Yep, you know, it's wow, anyway. So that was just me just poking back. And just why is it that adults then doing this? So the diagnosis, the method, diagnosing how about then? Um for kids? How do you think that's being done? Or, and do you think it's wise, um move to get those diagnoses done for children?
Andrea:I. So, looking at my brothers, my brothers are five, so there's quite an age gap between me and my youngest siblings, but they both have been diagnosed with ADHD. Okay, my one of my brothers just recently switched medicine from. He was on, I think it was Ritalin, and now he's on Adderall, and so my sister was talking to me about it recently and she said the difference between him before and the difference between him now is astronomical questions and wait for the answer. He doesn't ask the same question over and over. He is able to actually answer questions and to remember where his toy is or to remember to eat lunch, and without that diagnosis he wouldn't have those tools.
Adrian:Interesting, so I think have those tools Interesting.
Andrea:So I think, just like with anything, I think it can be an issue. Maybe we are diagnosing ADHD too much, or maybe we're just realizing that a lot more people have ADHD than we thought before. But I think any time where we can look at someone and say, oh, these may be helpful tools, it's helpful.
Adrian:Absolutely, and I guess, regardless of what the stats are or whatever it be, whether it's under or over or whatever, it is the fact that you're not really caring about that, the fact that it helped your brother. You're just happy that he's able to be able to focus in and be able to live more of a what we would consider to be, you know, a fair existence in the sense of having things calm down inside of his mind. Well, so obviously we always want to. As a Christian, I'm always going to send things through that filter of how I think about these things. So help me out.
Adrian:This is because this is where the greatest skepticism comes, yeah, is oh man, I'm glad he was helped with Adderall, I'm glad he was helped with these other things. And then it's like the difference between your mind and your heart and should be controlled by the spirit. And so should those things be controlled by the spirit. And I do think that you've made a great illustration already with anxiety, so we've asked those questions about anxiety. We've made a great illustration already with anxiety, so we've asked those questions about anxiety. But hey, frame it with this context in mind of ADHD. What would you then say about that tension inside your mind to go back and forth of, like you know, should this be controlled by the spirit, with discipline and different things versus other areas?
Andrea:So, first of all, I hope this conversation helps people realize that ADHD isn't just someone can't sit still, that it is a biological thing. So it's not just that like my brain races, it's that my brain works differently and so, just like anyone else, whether you have ADHD or not, we all struggle to take our thoughts captive and to allow the spirit to do what only the spirit can do. But also, I think there is something beautiful about the way we experience God differently than people without ADHD. So, in the same way, an autistic person will experience God differently and a deaf person will experience God differently. And I experienced God differently than my friend who also has ADHD. Like, we all experience God differently, regardless of what we have going on, and I just think that's beautiful, because God knows that I have ADHD. That's not a surprise to him.
Adrian:Yeah.
Andrea:Like he knows I have depression, he knows I have anxiety, he knows I have paranoia and patterns of obsessive thinking, like all of these things that are diagnosesoses. He knows and don't surprise him, and so I think I just have to remember that for me my symptoms aren't an excuse, but they are an explanation.
Adrian:Wow, another one lying zinger that I'm trying to write down as quickly as possible. Can you say that one more time? Your symptoms, what?
Andrea:My symptoms aren't an excuse. They are an explanation. They're an explanation.
Adrian:They're an explanation and there's nothing wrong with an explanation, no matter how you frame it. Whatever it is, I love that answer. Let me just give you a little applause. I love that answer. All right, well, you've covered a lot. Very, very well done. I just want to, just as we've locked up with all of our podcast episodes, but with tips and tools, usually we just end off with books or whatever it is. But from a person who does have ADHD, how do you, or how do people love other people well that have ADHD? Because obviously, when you are feeling ostracized for being different or being, you know in our minds you're overactive. But if you're just, if your mind can just really think at that pace and be able to be thought, impulsive or whatever it is, how do then do people love you? Well, and love people with ADHD well?
Andrea:Yeah, so I. First of all, this part is my favorite. I love talking about how to love others well, and so, as I was thinking through it, I have three tips for how to love people with ADHD. Well, the first one is recognize that they are trying their best, even when their best doesn't look like your best. Wow. Two, I would say give them grace. They will probably be late to dinner every time you get together, but you don't have to bring it up every time. Remember that we have a really hard time with things like perceived rejection or criticism. It's one of. They call it a comorbidity. So things that walk hand in hand with ADHD is rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria. So just remember that, like we just need grace, we're trying our best. And then the third thing is be a safe place for them to unmask. So if someone around you has ADHD and their symptoms always seem worse around you, it's probably because you're safe enough to unmask around, and that's an honor and a privilege and it should be treated that way.
Adrian:I feel like we need a handout after this, after this podcast episode, because everything that you were saying, I got my pen out and I was like, no, I'm just going to absorb the moment. But those are some very, very helpful tips. Do you mind just reading them just straight? Reading the three tips just one more time. I think they had so much depth to them that just a one Passover it deserves another. Yep.
Andrea:Yep. So the three tips that I have for loving with people loving people with ADHD well are recognize that they are trying their best, even when their best doesn't look like your best. Give them grace and be a safe place for them to unmask.
Adrian:Fantastic For those who do have ADHD, any kind of practical tips for managing symptoms. You know, because again, at the end of the day time management matters, organization matters, right, and so any tips for those who do have ADHD.
Andrea:Yep. So I have three tips again because I like these in threes apparently.
Adrian:Okay, handout is coming. I was going to just say no, but handout is coming, all right.
Andrea:So, first of all, I think everything is like it's going to be different for everyone, but my top tips are I love an audio or a visual timer. So a lot of people talk about audio or visual timer. So like having some, like whether it's a video, a countdown video or an actual timer in front of you, I think those are helpful. For me, an audio timer is much more helpful. So what I do is on Spotify.
Andrea:I have playlists that are 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 45 minutes, 60 minutes, 75 minutes, and, depending on how much time I have, depends on what playlist I'm listening to, and so I know, because I've listened to these often, I know, oh, at this song I have depends on what playlist I'm listening to, and so I know, because I've listened to these often, I know, oh, at this song, I have to be doing this or like this is the last song before I need to walk out the door, and so for me, like any sort of thing like that where I can have an external help, whether it's an audio timer or a visual timer, it's super helpful for helping me stay on task.
Adrian:That is fantastic, that's so practical. That's so practical and easy. Yes, listen to music on my way, get ready for church every single Sunday and stuff so interesting, all right. So we've talked about people interacting with ADHD, then people who have ADHD, and this is usually the Burden Brothers. This is where most times we live and we usually just go to just the books, but we always want to recommend podcasts, books, whatever it is, to be able to discuss more about ADHD and where can they learn more?
Andrea:So I really only have one suggestion which is a shocker because I've done threes up until this point but I would say Casey Davis. She runs strugglecarecom and is also on social media. She has been so helpful in just one removing shame from the systems that I had to create for myself, because she talks about find a system that works for you and it doesn't have to work for everyone else, and so taking away the shame of like, oh, this is how society says I need to clean my house, she's like why, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. And then also, just being graceful with the language that I use, she's also a licensed counselor who is open and honest about her own journey and providing helpful tips and resources, and so, yeah, I can't recommend her enough. That brings a huge attention.
Adrian:You know sometimes you can get lost in a sea of books or whatever it is, but when you highlighted like most definitely, I'm sure, anybody who's remotely interested that's going to be their one resource that they go to. Now you said now it's on social media. Is it like reels or is it a podcast, or can you break that down again?
Andrea:So I typically interact with her content on TikTok and Instagram. But she also does have a website where she has resources, different blog articles, things like that.
Adrian:Excellent, excellent. Well, you have covered a lot in this episode. Jam-packed so many quotable quotes, it's kind of hard to pick which one to be able to be highlighted. But with all the stuff that we've covered, I just want to make sure that in your heart and mind there wasn't anything that wasn't covered. So typically, the brothers our terminology is are all hearts and minds queer. Andrea.
Andrea:I think the only last thing that I want to say is just because your ADHD may look different than someone else's, that doesn't mean it's fake. So don't gaslight yourself into thinking you don't have ADHD, because I was there for a very long time and I avoided the tips and tricks because I thought they wouldn't be helpful. So if you whether you are diagnosed with ADHD or you even just have some of the symptoms figure out systems that work for you and don't like, don't negate that.
Adrian:Well and one of the things you said, the symptoms. As far as in the Christian worldview, they're not an excuse, but they are an explanation. Therefore, be and embrace it, therefore, and then find helps to be able to be the very best that the Lord could have us to be Well. The conversation has been absolutely fascinating, andrea. It's been our pleasure on the podcast to have you. Thank you so much. We definitely appreciate it. I know it'll be a help to many and if you do have questions about this episode, make sure that you reach out to us. I do have a direct line to Andrea. I could be able to get those questions to her burdenforthetimescom. Burdenforthetimes at gmailcom or whatever social media platform you want to interact with us on. I know that that definitely would be a help. So, thank you so much for joining us and we look forward to you joining us.
